First Pregnancy Missed Miscarriage (Part 4)

[Kiki061190]

Hi ladies!

Our previous thread is now full so I’ve made a new one 😘

Yes @Kiki061190 I think there should be more care following a loss for anyone. I was shocked no follow up after my surgery. Things like aspirin can be helpful for some younger woman but until 3 losses they won’t look into blood clotting. It’s only because I’m 40 they’ve told me to take it anyway as it’s recommended from 12 weeks as blood clotting is more common with age. I think after one loss, especially if a mmc there should be a consultant appointment or at least a specially trained midwife.

@MrsMGE yes the statistics are very problematic. Definitely far more younger people going through loss and not reporting. A doctor at EPAU said that to me. He felt my chances were very good at 39/40 as mc rates were high regardless of age. Older people are more likely to seek support.

I really hope this is it for you. I didn’t feel particularly pregnant when I got my bfp which is weird as I’m sensitive to the hormones. Fingers crossed for you. Xx

@Catconfusion I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't believe no follow up after my MMC through medical management either.

I also completely agree there should be a different care after the miscarriage, there should be specialist midwives at the very least, and/or consultant led straight away. They should also run the very basic tests sooner because simple measures could possibly help.

It makes my blood boil when I hear of people who make up or exaggerate health issues and use up NHS resources, and there's allegedly no money for saving babies. Having said that, at least some of it is propaganda by the media rags, I think the real biggest issue is that not enough people train to work for the NHS, either because it's too much effort or they don't have enough money, and the push/financial support is no longer there. Also they seem to be stuck in the 70s half the time, the facilities are no longer fit for purpose and that's due to lack of planning for the future and poor management. The two plagues in the public sector. Xx

On a separate note (and in keeping with my today's rant day theme), I've always despised child killers even before my pregnancies. It's just the most horrid thing a human can do in my book. In recent weeks, there have been so many stories in the media, I remember a particular one about a mother who killed her two young girls to be able to work freely as a prostitute! I mean WTAF! I am so, so angry when I read things like this now, I could physically burst. I hope all child abusers and killers get caught and justice will be served, the *** have no idea how lucky they are to be gifted with children in their lives! Poor, poor little ones.

Sorry, I had to get it out of the system!

@MrsMGE I completely agree. There should be far more care in place. I will be making a complaint to PALS at our local hospital about the midwife who refused to refer me for a scan with the first pregnancy when I had concerns. I think I’ll mention some of these points so maybe things can change for future ladies.

It’s just horrible what happens in the world. It just makes it feel worse that having a healthy baby is so hard for us yet abusive people get to be parents easily. Xx

@Catconfusion @MrsMGE I had quite a lot of scans following my mmc and my hospital was fantastic about it but I agree that because of my age and the fact that I’m in my twenties they just shrugged when I asked if I should be concerned that this might happen again. Essentially they said I’m young and I fell pregnant so easily I shouldn’t worry! I was kind of like it’s not the falling pregnant I’m worried about, it’s the holding on to the pregnancy. They did say I can have an early scan if I want but I’m going to avoid it!

@Kiki061190 I'm 32 and my midwife told me on the phone as I was going through the MMC that they wouldn't offer me an early scan in the next pregnancy, as there's no reason for it! I was gobsmacked. That's another issue, why is the approach so inconsistent between the Trusts? It's not my job to worry if my midwife is having a bad day and dismissed my concerns, she should be doing her job, end of.

@Kiki061190 I agree with you BTW, I don't think I'll be going for early scans, but I would if I started to spot, for example. It would be nice to be given that option after losing the baby, but alas, the NHS couldn't care less.

@Catconfusion I know, it breaks my heart. I try not to think about those horrible people who don't know how blessed they are, but it does get to me sometimes, especially now when I'm still waiting for some positive news 😔 xx

Re the stats, I like to think that everyone is different, younger people have issues too - I know quite a few who have. Even if you are older, if you have regular cycles, you are a healthy weight with a good diet no smoking and not too much caffeine and alcohol, you stand a really good chance of getting pregnant within a 'normal' timescale. (I think that's why I'm so frustrated that nothing is happening for me - yet.)

I would be going to early scans. I don't think I could help myself. Plus, I would feel awful knowing I had been walking around again not knowing that anything was wrong and wasting time. But I know plenty of others who feel stress and anxiety from going to them.

I find it difficult that even if you have a specific concern - like virtually non existent periods following ERPC, they dismiss you and say try for six months which is such a massive waste of time and/or money if you end up going for private tests

Completely agree @zoomies and I’m sorry it’s not happened yet. I don’t think there’s anything to say that’s comforting really because it’s such an uncertain time. I know I was terrified of not falling pregnant again. I’m sure it will happen for you soon but I know I wasn’t comforted when people said that to me. What is the support you’re getting from the GP like now? Xx

@Kiki061190 it’s fantastic you got follow up scans. Sadly we were sent home after the ERPC with no follow up and limited information. The consultant was even too busy to see me after my surgery. Xx

I think it’s awful @MrsMGE you wouldn’t be offered an early scan but when the time comes I’d urge you to speak to your gp instead of you change your mind. I’ve dealt with a couple of midwifes who were really dismissive of early scans. Almost like you don’t deserve one unless you’re definitely miscarrying. If that was the case all the EPAU would deal with all day is mc. Checking the progression of a pregnancy due to a previous loss is a completely valid reason to be referred. My EPAU and GP made it clear no problem with getting checked out. It’s the midwives who act like gate keepers. I even got told I wouldn’t be seen when EPAU themselves said I would. I just think some midwives like the little power they have. The lady I spoke to on the phone really didn’t like that my GP was getting involved. My GP told me to use the midwife appointments as a formality and just see her. Xx

@Catconfusion You're right. I have an aversion when it comes to people on a power trip, midwives or not. They are so focused on themselves that the forget to show compassion towards those who they are supposed to care for. My nan always told me "Never forget why you do the job you do in the first place", eh!

At the moment even thinking about scans is making me ill, it's giving me more anxiety than a positive pg test would and I think I'd rather wait for the 12 wk scan and do Harmony testing then. But everyone is different and I get that.

@zoomies1 This is my biggest fear too. Or that I'm gonna end up with an ectopic pregnancy & damage to my tubes, or with another MC and damage to my cervix and I will be permanently infertile. I know it sounds overly dramatic. But this fear is somewhere there 😔

@Catconfusion I had two follow up scans which was nice, they were thorough in checking me over which I really appreciated! It’s a shame you never had that. I think it depends on who you are dealing with personally which is unfortunate as everyone doesn’t offer the same level of care.

@MrsMGE I agree about scans giving you anxiety. I’m more nervous about having anther scan than anything else. I can’t face being told bad news again. I held it together the first time so well but I think a second time in the space of months would be horrendous.

@zoomies1 completely agree with what you said about early scans - I also don't want to waste anytime and I can't bear the thought of not knowing what is going on in there. Like @MrsMGE said, scans do come with a lot of anxiety, I nearly cry at all of them, but I still don't want to have the pain of an mmc that was only caught one month later. I don't want to have false hope this time around.

As far an NHS goes, I have to say that coming from a country that doesn't have universal healthcare, I adore the NHS. I find that the midwives are really caring (for the most part) and you will get extra care if you need it, just not otherwise. Yes, there aren't enough free scans, that's for sure. But they are free and that really amazes me. I think you just have to advocate for yourself a bit more with this system, where if you are in pain or really anxious you have to let someone know and keep pressing the issue until you find help. The policy is not to give early scans, even to ladies who have had mmc/mc, but I think most GPs or EPAUs will be understanding if you have a specific concern. It's hard to constantly push for what you need, but you can get it most of the time if there is a good reason.

@sadtoday21 I must disagree, sadly it's not always the case and even being pushy doesnt help at my local EPAU or with my community midwife. Trust me, I don't tend to take no for an answer easily when it comes to important issues.

I have lived in several countries with free healthcare, and I must say that sadly, the NHS's attitude is by far the worst, and I really don't think there's as much to be proud of as some might think. The NHS is bleak comparing to a number of continental European healthcare systems.

What also upsets me is that the follow up care in Europe after miscarriage is much better than in the UK, and I know this first hand from my friend who lives there and whose sister has just been through it. She was astonished to hear how I've been treated here.

I get what you're saying @sadtoday21 and I'm glad you've had some good experiences of the nhs. I've had some very good experiences too, especially with my GP and EPAU. However during the mmc and the aftermath its sadly been very hit and miss. No one should have to push for the right treatment during the worse possible time. Quite frankly I've had to deal with some of the most discompassionate healthcare professionals I've ever come across. Yes it's free but that doesn't mean it should be substandard. We still pay taxes it's just free at the point of use. This obviously is amazing but the system is inconsistent.

When I was in pain and spotting, scared to death of a miscarriage I advocated for myself. I called the midwife emergency line and asked for a scan. I got told I was making a fuss about nothing, that I would be taking the place of someone having an emergency. I was that emergency and my baby had died weeks before. I was told no point seeing the GP as they would say the same (not true) so we paid for a scan. It was negligent of that midwife not to send me. If I'd waited for my 12 week scan I could have developed an infection or had other complications because my baby was dead inside me for 6 weeks.

If it is policy for women with a history of mc to not be sent for a reassurance scan, I think that's wrong on so many levels. Especially if they've had a mmc. Even if the odds of another loss are low it's important for mental health reasons. The doctor I saw at the EPAU expressed the importance of diagnosing mmc and that's why the unit tries to be accessible. I have no idea why midwives prevent ladies from going in my area. So far I've spoken to 4 different midwives and only one was compassionate about my situation. I think that's worrying! xx

@Catconfusion I completely agree.

My EPAU only offers ERPCS once a week "because this is their schedule". No one's offered to ring a different hospital and check their availability, and I wasn't in a state of mind during the MMC to ask for it. I didn't even think there was an option cause no one told me. Turns out, there is. Because of this wait I had to go with medical management despite me repeatedly telling the EPAU that this would really traumatise me and it wouldn't be good for me long term. Well I did it, oy because the choice they gave me was either that or waiting another 2 weeks for the ERPC meaning I'd have to carry my dead baby for 6 weeks. No one cared there. Between them, all women, not one said "I'm sorry", "Do you need help?", "Would you like a counsellor?", nothing.

The doctor at the EPAU did not even offer to give me a sick note to commence after the medical management. I was told "Some women go back to work the next day". My thought: Well, how about you f* off, darling?

They then didn't offer any advice or support when I was going through it without painkillers which I couldn't hold down cause I was so sick. It was early labour for me and no one cared, no one's offered for me to come in so maybe they could give me something on an IV.

The community midwives are a joke. One never answered the phone, never texted back, called me once by accident calling me a different name! Then she's disappeared and was followed by another one who said no early scan in pregnancy, even after the MMC.

I felt, throughout this whole ordeal, like a reproductive cow, rather than like a woman and a human being. I have absolutely zero things to be grateful to that lot for, and will never speak of them highly cause they've traumatised me unnecessarily.

I pay shit loads from my own salary for them to do their job well, for all of us, and if this is the best they can do, they need to have a good hard look at themselves. In my profession, we are held to much higher standards, which is rather surprising if you think that it's the NHS staff that deals with life or death matters.

I do think it depends on your hospital, your midwife and your personal experience. I’ve had a good experience with the NHS but I disliked how they shrugged off any concerns because if my age.

My cousin has been trying to conceive since her mid twenties and she has just at 37 had her first baby. She went through so many fertility struggles but was shrugged off as she was in her twenties. That drifted into her 30s and now she says she can’t stand going through the process to try and have another baby as the first try was so time consuming and heartbreaking for her. Sometimes you have a gut instinct that something isn’t quite right. I truly trust my gut instinct and I think sometimes you just know!

Sorry, I'm really ranting today girls, I don't mean it. It's hitting me today that it's probably not my month and I'm surprised with how desperate I am to be pregnant again 😔 I was taking it easy and doing well for weeks, but it's 2.5 months now and will be at least another 6 weeks wait and it's killing me 😔

I’m so sorry @MrsMGE it’s simply awful what you went through. If I hadn’t had the most amazing EPAU nurse who persistently called the consultant for a cancellation, I wouldn’t have got an ERPC. It’s upsetting that it’s not really an option if a two week wait. It’s essentially emergency surgery so should be offered accordingly. I really hope your experiences in the future are better. It doesn’t take away the trauma you’ve experienced though. Xx

@kiki061190 I think you’re completely right about it being area specific. Generally my area is good for healthcare. I’m just scared of having to deal with a midwife again. I just hope I get a good one. My GP is supportive of me seeing her for most issues that come up as I’ve said I don’t trust midwives.

Your poor cousin. It’s simply awful she lost faith in the system because her concerns weren’t addressed. One of my best friends is similar. She was told nothing wrong despite seeing the doctor from 18 with cycle issues. When she started trying they shrugged off her concerns. Turns out she’s got premature Ovarian failure. She’s 38 and menopausal. By the time they tried ivf with her it was too late. The doctor says she should have tried earlier but she wasn’t told she needed to. She was 33 so early enough for most people. All along the doctors fobbed her off and told her there was nothing wrong. She had a period every two weeks so obviously something wrong. Through this she dumped her best eggs at a young age. It’s really sad. Xx

Don’t apologise @MrsMGE completely understand. Sometimes it’s good to have a rant. Have you officially complained about EPAU? Xx

I’m very sorry for what you went through @MrsMGE and I absolutely didn’t mean to offend you in any way. As @Kiki061190 said, it seems people do have very different experiences with the NHS. You definitely deserved better treatment than you received and everything you said is completely valid.❤️

I can’t compare to other systems in Europe, but I do know friends in the States that paid 15k out of pocket to have their perfectly healthy baby, and that was with good health insurance and still paying high taxes as well. The for profit health service is deeply flawed in a lot of ways. So, I guess there are problems everywhere, but I am grateful for the care I receive here.

Speaking of which, I’m at the EPAU now for a scan and feeling really nervous about it. They took me for a same day scan, even though I inisisted there was no medical emergency and I didn’t want to take anyone else’s place who might need it more. I guess they are not that busy in summer. Anyway, the anxiety of waiting for the scan is almost as bad, but hope I can see her dancing around again.

@sadtoday21 You didn't offend me at all. I'm just having a bad day when all the hard feelings related to this ordeal have hit me a bit, combined with the empty arms syndrome. How did it go at the EPAU?

@Catconfusion This is simply awful, your poor friend. My heart really breaks for her, I don't know what to say. Is there no chance at all for her?

Re the complaint, I didn't. I know it sounds stupid, but I fight for other people in my job every day, and I just lost the energy to fight for myself at that time. I probably should have done this.

@sadtoday21 everything ok?

@MrsMGE feel free to vent. My EPU were largely great and my brother works in the NHS but I have seen some really poor stuff including my mum being shrugged off in emergency which nearly resulted in her death. Also about the fear. I'm with you - and I can't wait another 10 months plus if something goes wrong next time....

@Catconfusion I have a GP appointment on Monday (my birthday....) to kick things off. I'm actually looking forward to it as it feels like progress but ask me again afterwards... I need to make sure I know what I'm asking for.