First Pregnancy Missed Miscarriage

[sadtoday21]

Hello everyone - I've never posted on these forums before, but I had a missed miscarriage at 9 weeks and I found out at the 12 week dating scan two days ago. It was my first ever pregnancy. Yesterday, I had D&C and now recovering. Really healthy otherwise and no signs at all that anything was wrong during the pregnancy, although I never had any morning sickness.

I am really in shock and this happened on the 1 year anniversary of my mom's death (breast cancer), so the whole thing just feels like too much to handle. DH (dear husband) is very supportive, but I don't have any women friends to talk to, besides one who is more than 20 weeks pregnant and well...I just can't deal with that. Any advice on how to recover emotionally and also when to start trying again? GP said to wait 3 weeks, but I don't think I can wait that long. Please help and thank you.

@Catconfusion I never realised there was a difference after an ERPC vs medical or natural.... the EPU certainly never made that clear when I was given the options! I miscarried naturally in the end but as a result haven't felt ready to try yet anyway and I'm hoping AF is only a couple of weeks off now so will wait anyway. Like you said if they'd made that clear you'd probably have thought differently about what to do so I can imagine how frustrating and upsetting it must be. Feel like we're all due a break soon after what we've been though x

@3203ECL yes that's exactly what I was told. I was really ill with hypermedia during the pregnancy and was so physically weak I didn't feel strong enough to go through Medical or Natural. I would have done it though it if could have helped my lining heal. The problem is they just give you blanket advice without considering individual cases. I already have very thin lining evidenced by periods that last a day. My doctor isn't worried by this as not a problem in my pregnancy that ended in a MMC but after an ERPC I'm now worried as very thin anyway my lining will take much longer to recover. Its so horrible to think that embryo was probably viable but my lining wasn't strong enough to support it.

I've heard a natural miscarriage can be really tough and it can also take some time to get back to normal. I really hope you recover quickly and can ttc again soon! Yes we all deserve a break! xx

@Catconfusion I am sorry to hear about the conversation with the doctor. I guess maybe we will start ttc again around the same time as each other, if all goes well for both of us (really hoping I can start again in 3 months). It was really heart-breaking for me to read about you blaming yourself for not waiting and letting the lining get thicker because I know I would be doing the same thing. But please believe me when I say it was not your fault. I've researched this so much and everyone is different, some people have no problem with a new pregnancy right away and others do. Even if you had waited three months, the outcome might have been the same. You just never know. I know you know all this too. We want to think it's in our control and we can do something to fix it, and it's really hard to accept that to a large extent this whole pregnancy lark is just totally beyond our control. I'm so sorry you are going through this right now and I hope you can find some peace as each day passes.

Isn't this all so much more awful now that it's nearly mother's day? I want to vomit when I see all the ads...

Thanks @sadtoday21 I know probably not anything I could have done. Just more mad at the doctors for saying ok to try again. There's a natural fertility centre in my city so I might get an appointment there and see if there's anything else I can do for the lining. I haven't bled yet but I'm really scared it just won't come. That could be a sign of Asherman's syndrome. Just really worried my lining is now damaged. I think we will definitely wait for a decent period. If I don't bleed much with the next one I'll wait for another one. The GP said it's up to us as my lining might be ok after one bleed but she would wait for two to be sure since we conceive so easily.

Yes its incredibly hard with Mothers Day coming up. I can imagine its really hard for you with missing your Mum. It must be so raw still. Sadly I don't have the best relationship with my own Mum so its tough anyway. She's very absent and of course I'm grateful I still have her, but I barely hear from her. She left my Dad for someone else and has pretty much told me she finds our relationship hard because I'm so much like my Dad. I'm still her daughter though but she keeps me at arms length.

Sorry for the rant, just very emotional today. I hope I feel better tomorrow! xx

Hi @Catconfusion - I don't there is any real telling as to why these things happen. I think the GP's just give general advice and don't necessarily go into the unique details of the individual. I have found this with my GP's after the ERPC...it's just not their specialism. That's why I have hesitated in going to see them today, just no point. I get terribly frustrated with GP's, so I will stop before I begin with a massive rant. I would try not to be overly concerned about your lining, but if you are I would suggest investigating it with a specialist. I have also heard that acupuncture can improve the lining...something to do with balancing the hormones, definitely worth a try. I also have short periods which can vary in flow...so know why you would consider the possibility of being an issue. I hope you are taking it easy and finding breaks to not think about it all. Incredibly hard not to, but I have found forcing myself to meet a self imposed deadline has helped recently.

@sadtoday21 your chart looks good. I know nothing about MP'a so can't offer any advice on this matter unfortunately. But your body seems to be getting back on track and can definitely see a pattern of O on the chart. I can imagine you are counting down the seconds for your appointment, but also hesitate about the whole possible scenarios. I really hope you get some easy news on Wednesday, and not news which will delay you progressing.

Gosh, it's a big week this week isn't it @sarmum14! What with yours and @sadtoday21 appointments. I think it's a good plan to go cold turkey on the testing until Thursday. I have found they throw up more questions than provide answers. I have spent a fortune on HPTs recently. To be honest my instinct and bbt chart has told me all that I need to have known.

I went for a walk earlier today to get myself away from the office/home. Whilst I walked I got some more cramping (af type) and went I got home a got a small amount of blood streaked CM. I also had a small spot of red blood whilst wiping. Not really anything else. Just wish it would start and get it over with. As I am only 5+2, I am hoping it will be quite quick and painless. I will probably phone the midwife tomorrow to update them on events. I did have a wobble today and phoned the doctors, of course no appointments and no possibility to speak to a doctor.

Having some interesting chats with the DH today. I explained that I am tired of this ttc process, it's so consuming. I told him that I think we need a small break. He reluctantly agreed. I think the short pause will help me focus on getting some testing done (for both of us) and getting my head in the right place. So, my short term plan is...if I have not physically MC by Friday, I will pee on yet another stick to doubly confirm that this is truly a MC. This will help me plan for my break to Scotland (which was planned to be a restful hol). I have made an appointment with the GP for when I return from Scotland. I intend to ask for some simple tests, but if they can't do them due to the guidelines, I will ask for a list of tests that should be done as a starting point to rule out the basics. Take it from there really.

Sorry for the really long post xx

@Amanda81 thanks :), I was hoping you would say that about the chart. I'm so sorry the cramps are starting and I hope it isn't too painful. I can understand why you would want to take a break from ttc, I really do. You need to heal and find yourself again, we all do. Even though my break from ttc is probably going to be doctor-enforced, rather than a choice, it might be a good thing to take a few months to try to heal. I haven't been treating DH well at all lately, I've just been too wrapped up in my grief and despair. And I haven't been doing well at work. It would be good to find myself again too.

I just wanted to echo your previous comments and say that, even though we are all strangers, I'm so so glad that I found you guys. I don't think I could have made it through this without your support. This thread is the first thing I check in the morning when I wake up and the first place I go when I am really scared and low. I feel like you guys get it, in a way that no one else can. And I want to thank you for listening.

@SARmum14 I hope you are ok too. You seem like a really strong person, but I know you are going through difficult times now too. Thinking of you this week as our appointments draw near xxx.

@Catconfusion Also thinking of you and hoping your dream will come true soon. I know it's hard and this is a terrible set back, but you are strong and brave and you will come through it. We all will.

Sending love and hugs to you all tonight xxxx.

P.S. I still think this can be a lucky thread! Let's not give up hope just yet.

Oh my loves. I missed so much of what was discussed yesterday but just wanted to say @Catconfusion please don't blame yourself. Everything @sadtoday21 says is exactly right. And also as @Amanda81 said I really do think GPs give general advice and I'd take it with a pinch of salt. One of the reasons I avoided medical management is because I didn't feel brave enough but also because I'd read lots of threads about partial miscarriage and women who ended up needing ERPCs afterwards anyway. We're all in the same boat but I don't think we should examine every past movement and criticise ourselves. We've been through enough. I'm really thinking of you and sending strength.

@Amanda81 - I feel I owe you an apology. I didn't see your first post before mine yesterday morning and am worried that mine came across as glib. I'm so sorry if it did. I was reading on the tube and typed on the go. I'm really sorry for what you're going through and I think your plan re: HPTs sounds sensible. Are you speaking to the MW today?

@sadtoday21 how're you doing? I slept last night for the first time since Friday and feel so tired and exhausted from it all. I must admit that I caught up on yesterday's thread posts whilst I was in bed last night and reading all the things you've been saying to one another made me feel so emotional. In a Beyoncé/feminism kinda way if that makes sense? I mean, just look at all of us and look at the strength we have even if we feel like we don't and how everyone is supporting one another. I know we've already done the gushy bit but my god women are incredible. And I agree, this is already a lucky thread for me. Because you've all saved my sanity.

How's everyone else? I'm sending love and strength today. And again, asking the universe to throw us a f'ing bone!

Hi everyone,

So the bleeding has started today which is a relief to be honest. The cramps have eased a bit too.

I get that GPs are generalists but there was so much speculation about what this might be during that phone call. Considering I'm describing sharp pain and she's being nonchalant about the whole thing. Also her information really wasn't right. She kept saying I'd been scraped so should expect my body to need longer to recover. An ERPC is not scraping. This surgeon explained this to me. Also that this couldn't be chromosomal as too early for that. I thought most chemical pregnancies are chromosomal. Big difference between that and a lining issue in terms of how long we need to wait. Anyway I'm going to call EPAU and see what they think and definitely try and get a second opinion. We really don't want to wait 8-12 weeks to try again unless it's necessary.

Sorry this is a bit of a one sided post. I've barely slept and am very tired. I'll check in with you all more personally later.

I'm loving the girl power vibes. This thread has really been a lifesaver and I'm extremely grateful for it during these quite frankly rubbish times. I really hope we all have better news soon! Xx

Morning all.

@sarmum14 you don't need to worry about a thing, didn't interpret your post that way at all. You are lovely, friendly and supportive all the time 💗.

@Catconfusion - in all honesty I think the GP is talking utter bollocks! I had an erpc and understand that they use vacuum and only scrape if they absolutely need to. Your lining replenishes during each cycle and one could argue that after a clean out (like an erpc) it may have created a nice smooth surface for something to implant. I would say it is chromosomal, and surely a GP should be saying that for such an early loss. A GP should definitely not be jumping to conclusions like that. Utter nonsense. I fear you have got me started on the whole GP rant now 😬😬😬 you are correct, most early losses are chromosomal and should be considered as such until investigations are carried out to rule out anything else. Unfortunately at our age, the likelihood of MC is much greater and this is something which is slapped in our face frequently. My concern is that how many bad experiences do you have to go through before they investigate...it's so crap that it is 3. Bloody NICE guidelines. Total pants. Hope you are okay and so please the pain as eased xx

Anywho, this was supposed to be a quick catchup...as I'm busying myself with survey work today and getting up and about. Quick update from me, waiting for a call back from the midwife after I left a brief message this morning on the answerphone. Didn't get much sleep last night either.

I will catchup later with a proper update xx

Thanks @Amanda81 it is utter bollocks. I'm bleeding very heavily so can't believe it was thin lining. Know the very early pregnancy could have increased the thickness but very hard to believe. I'll be seeing a different doctor next time.

Good luck with the phone call. I really hope it's not what you think and the bleeding/cramping holds off!

Xx

Don't even get me started on GPs! I called the one on Friday about the letter and possible partial molar and he not only wouldn't tell me any results but also just said I'm sure it's all fine, don't worry about it. I told another GP I felt the hcg levels were too high and wreaking havoc with my face so I barely recognize myself in the mornings, and she refused to do any blood tests and said your face just has a beauty marks. Seriously?? Dh will attest that these are more like bacterial growths spreading everywhere than "beauty marks." And if she had tested my hcg she might have seen how high it was and caught the molar thing earlier. Anyway, as @Amanda81 said, my rant is over hahaha.

@Catconfusion I'm so sorry the bleeding has started, but I hope you can get through it today and that it doesn't last too long. Your GP sounds rubbish and I would definitely get a second opinion on the wait time. I also considered the lining issue when I decided to get the d&c, but like @SARmum14 said there are also risk factors with medical management and I was never going to mc naturally. In the end, it's really good I did the d&c, because otherwise this condition might never have been detected.

Thanks @SARmum14 for asking after me. I hope you are doing a bit better today. Your appointment is on Thursday, right? Let's hope we can get some answers really soon and that it won't set us back too far in ttc. Somedays I am ok with waiting and other days all I can think about is ttc and want so badly to continue on and have a normal pregnancy for once. Sigh. Hope you are ok xxx.

Even though we did not time dtd during O, since I had the letter, I am a little concerned that my temps seem to still keep rising a lot - I was 37.03 today! I hope it's not a triphasic shift and comes back down so I can have AF and clear more of this hcg out of my body. Do you think I should take the evening primrose to induce it to come, or would that be bad because I am in the post-O window?

Random question for your guys - I took a Sainsbury's HPT yesterday (I looked online and it has a 15 miu/l), and it was completely negative. Does this mean my hcg levels are below 15 now? Really wish there was some way to see the numbers at home...

Thanks @sadtoday21 I actually feel relieved it's over. There is a lot of blood but maybe what I need. Sorry if tmi.

Sounds like your GP was awful as well. Sounds like you just weren't heard and no attempt to understand your symptoms.

I think I know the Sainsbury's tests you mean. They're pretty sensitive but not quite as sensitive as first response. You'd need a first response to detect tiny amounts of hcg as they are doubly as sensitive.

How are you feeling now about tomorrow?

Thanks @Catconfusion I’m a bit of a nervous wreck, if I’m being honest. I feel like I can’t take more bad news. And the week is going so slowly. I am fearing the worst, and hopefully it’s not as bad as I fear, but luck hasn’t really been on my side lately either. Still, there’s nothing I can do about it. Just hate feeling so helpless, you know?

Will you let us know if you find anything else out about the lining issue? I read today that some GPS advise a six week to two month wait time because of this, but that a first period is a good sign the lining is back to normal and healthy. I suppose you don’t know when your AF will be back and I don’t know for myself either, but here’s hoping it doesn’t take too long. Not to sound too weird about it, but I feel like the bleeding could also be cleansing and let me move forward.

Hey @sadtoday21 I think you're being so brave in such an uncertain situation. I can imagine time has almost stood still. Not long now though and you'll know what's going on. I think you're coping really well and whatever it is you'll be just fine.

Of course I'll let you know what I find out about lining. It's wrong that there's so much inconsistency in the NHS. They should explain that fine to try again but beware a thin lining could result in another loss. If a doctor had said that we wouldn't have tried.

So I'm pretty sure this bleeding is AF as 16 days from ovulation (if I agree with Ovusense) which is my normal luteal phase. It is very heavy but red fresh blood (sorry if tmi). I know I had a very early loss but there is a lot here for someone with thin lining. I can't believe a tiny embryo would cause much more lining to build up. It clearly didn't even implant properly. I'm wondering if another chromosomal as @Amanda81 seemed to agree. Anyway I'll see a different doctor and go from there.

Take care today and try as hard as you can not to worry. I'm sure it's not as bad as you think! Xx

@Catconfusion I really appreciate you saying that, it really lifted my spirits. At least it's almost night now and the appointment is first thing in the morning. I am trying to decide whether I should ask about the sex of the baby when I see the consultant...I want to know and I also think it will be really hard to know at the same time. I think I am going to ask. It's going to be a rough day tomorrow.

I'm sorry I didn't understand that the mc was happening at the same time that you would have had AF. Forgive me, I didn't really know how those two things might or might not manifest differently. Did you also have the triphasic pattern on your chart when you got the BFP? My luteal phase is 19 days, I think, which I know is really long, so expecting AF in early April. I've been trying to make it come sooner, but I don't think it's really possible. It doesn't sound to me like you have a lining problem if your flow is heavy. I hope that the third time is the lucky time for you X.

What a day!

So the midwife phoned back and I told her that I think that the mc was imminent. Told her I was spotting, cramps, no pg symptoms etc. So she said that she could get me a scan on Monday next week or I could go and see the GP. So I phoned the GP (thinking I would get turned away). I managed to get an appointment with the emergency GP this afternoon.

Before my appointment the bleeding started so knew the appointment was just to confirm. Anyway...I take back what i said about GPs earlier, this doctor was amazing. He did a HPT straight away (it was negative) and sent me for bloods. I don't give blood easy, they tried in four locations (arms and hands) but nothing, so have to go back tomorrow morning. The bloods are to check for thyroid and some other simple stuff.

This is the amazing part...before I even mentioned next steps, he got in there before me. We discussed the options and he mentioned the 3xMC rule and said are you concerned as I am now 38. I said of course I am and that I have been considering getting some tests done privately. He then told me that I could get an appointment with a specialist which he would refer me to, and then I could get all my tests done on the NHS. Alternatively, there is a 9 month wait to see a specialist on the NHS. So I am now booked in to see a specialist on the 4th April. The time with the specialist I will need to pay for and I can have as much or as little testing done privately (of course depending on what the specialist says). The doctor said that they will also do hormone testing, but will need to wait for my cycle to return as they need me on certain days of my cycle.

So all in all it has been one shitty day, but pleased I saw a proactive doctor. I don't think that it has sunk in with me yet about having a second MC...that's yet to come xx

Hi @sadtoday21 are you on 4dpo today? If so, with a LP of 19 days, you should be 2 weeks away from getting AF - have I understood you right here? I think the LP is something which doesn't vary, but you can vary the first phase of your cycle by taking supplements (I think). I think by now you can assume that all HCg has gone if you are getting a negative on HPT. However, some women always have a trace of HCg even when not pregnant (lower the 5 that is). I think you need to ask what ever questions you want tomorrow...and I would recommend you make a list of the questions that you want to ask that you know you might regret at a later date. Sending you a virtual hand hold for tomorrow xx

@Catconfusion sorry to hear the bleeding is heavy...hope you aren't in any pain. I'm getting moments of it taking my breath away, but generally not in too much discomfort. The DH is bringing me home take away tonight as neither of us what to cook. Hope you are treating yourself too xx

Aw @sarmum14 - we have been through so much crap together, it's hard to not get emotional, isn't it. Great news that you got some sleep last night, I find that when you lack sleep and then get a bucket load in one night, it can drain you the next day. I hope you get another restful night tonight. Do you have Thursday on your mind? Xx

Sorry @Catconfusion I forgot to say! I asked the GP about trying again and he said get you period back and then start. The only reason for delaying was for knowing where you are in your cycle. He said there was nothing stopping you from trying straight away if we wanted too. I told him about my feelings of wanting to take a month off actively trying, but will still want to be close to my DH (if you know what I mean) and that I wouldn't use protection. He was fine with this. I also told him that I chart and know roughly when I ovulate, so can do my best to avoid the FW. Therefore, I would say your GP might be telling you a porky. The staff at the epu (after erpc) also told me that I could start when i was ready, but best to wait after af due to dating. Hope this helps lovely xx

@Amanda81 sorry it's been such a tough day but great news on how proactive the GP was. Fingers crossed the appointment will be helpful and they can make recommendations on tests etc. Not too long to wait either. Hope you're not in too much pain and the bleeding doesn't last too long. X

@Amanda81 also wanted to ask what app you use for tracking temps, think I'm going to start as I'm hoping it might help me to understand a bit more where I am and what's going on.

Hey @3204ECL I use Fertility Friend. I am only in to 3 months of BBT'Ing and have learnt so much. If you have any q's about temping, please do ask away. Thanks for asking after me, I thought i would be in more pain, but it could be early days. Looking forward to a sleep xx