He was supposed to be our rainbow

[KittyandTeal]

After loosing dd2 last year at 22weeks (T18 and a tfmr) I was told I probably couldn't have any more.

I made myself ok with it. It would just be 3 of us.

Then I found out I was pregnant. It has been anxious and stressful. All tests came back clear, found out he was a boy. I had a really good feeling that things would be ok.

Routine antenatal clinic today the doc said at the end of the appointment that he could give me a quick scan if I had time and it wouldn't make me too anxious.

Turns out our baby died, the day after our scan at fmc where everything looked great. No reason they can tell.

I actually don't think I know how to do all this again.

So sorry to hear your news kitty. I too have crossed threads with you and am so sorry this happened to you. I don't have the right words to make things better but I wanted you to know you are in my thoughts.

Thank you handbag. It's nice to see names I recognise.

I'm in a fair amount of pain today. The mw said my membranes were a bit 'ragged' after Leo was born and (tmi) I had a big flood of membranes and tissue about half and hour after he was born. The mw said there is a slightly increased chance of retained products this time round.

I have very minimal bleeding but the pain is way worse than they should be for the blood loss iyswim. Last night I passed a bit of tissue that was white and kind of lumpy, bit like a bit of placenta or something (although the placenta was fully intact) so im getting a bit worried about retained products. I think it's slightly more likely because of the earlier gestation? I know if it gets worse I'll need to go to hospital but I'm not sure how bad or how long I leave it. My stomach is also utterly wrecked by the hardcore antibiotics which doesn't help the pain.

Sorry, that's a right old sorry for myself moan.

I had retained membranes after DS - passed a few bits of tissue as you describe. I went back and they scanned me and put me on antibiotics. Said if it wasn't settling by a week later then I'd need surgery to remove. Hopefully it will settle quickly.

I love that physicist reading. We had the little snowflake, as well as in God's heavenly garden and tomorrow starts without me. Music was a big feature too.

Thanks for that chat. I already have antibiotics, they just give them as part of the induction process.

I'll give it a week then and see how it goes. I might have a look at tomorrow starts without me.

Beautiful reading Kitty. We had little snowdrop and remembering by Elizabeth Dent. Like Chat music was a big part of ours too and I've planted snowdrops in the garden now as well.

I'm sorry to hear you have all these pain on top of all the emotional pain. I had an infection in my uterus and had alot of pain so do go and get checked out if it carries on.

Don't apologise for having a moan, that's what we are here for.

Dear Kitty, I have been thinking of you this weekend.
We too had the poem 'little snowdrop' at our sons funeral, infact itsalwayssunny pointed us in the direction of it 😘. This time of year there are so many lovely snow drops to see. We spent a while trying to find what music we wanted and all three pieces we chose were modern. We found some lovely instrumentals of modern music searching through YouTube, some pieces were slowed down and better than the originals to be honest.
You'll know what is right for you.
Xx

Hi puggle. Yes we had little snowdrop at dd2s service (I couldn't remember the title) which is beautiful and still breaks me up. I'm not sure if I want something different or if having the same one read at both is somehow quite nice and links them together.

I'll have a look at remembering too. I know I definitely want the physicist reading, I'm an atheist but have become more and more drawn to science and astrophysics since loosing dd2, it's almost like I need a 'belief' that is real to me (I really don't mean to offend those who do believe in God, one of my best friends is a priest and I often wish I could believe)

My pil (who normally do my head in) obviously tried really hard today. They are very uncomfortable with emotional things but mil made an effort to ask about Leo and why we chose the name etc and fil (who has some social, emotional and communication issues) said 'cheer up' then quickly followed up with 'we all really feel for you'. Now from anyone else I'd have had an utter fit, who says cheer up to someone who's just lost a baby, however, that must have been a really tough thing for him to have thought up and said.

I'm am utterly shattered now. I'm not sleeping at all and it all hit me at once. I've had a good half hour of that gut wrenching, heart breaking, howling cry that is utterly inconsolable. I feel better for it though,purged almost.

If anyone else has suggestions for reading or music I'd be really grateful.

I'm a total atheist too and it was really important to me to not have anything related to god/heaven etc (no offence meant to any of those who do) its partly why we went for remembering and also the words just really struck a chord for me and DP and they still do. We had adagio for strings the classical version (which we didn't know at the time was a huge connection for my mum to her mum) and then Everybody hurts by r.e.m.

I hope you manage some sleep tonight or at the very least some rest. If you are not adverse to the idea then sleeping tablets helped me through that first week or so.

Let that cry out when it comes, it really does feel like a purge aftetwards. Huge hugs x

hi Kitty, I recognise you from another thread that we were on. I'm so sorry to hear that the worst has happened again to you. It's unbearable. Take care of yourself.

Kitty .... Life is shitty sometimes, I'm so sorry you had to go through this.
We had ds2 and was born with gene mutation so lots of disabilities, we then went on to have a loss at 10 weeks and finally our rainbow baby was born 2 years later. Have hope xxx

Kitty I just wanted to check in with you after commenting with you on another thread. I'm glad to hear the flood-gates opened for a little while for you.

I've just read the physicist reading and it is so moving and so real it brought me to tears (good tears). DH and I would be of a similar mindset and had an excerpt including the "star stuff" passage at our wedding. It's just beautiful. A fitting phrase for little Leo.

Thinking of you

Sunny, I love remember. I'd love to use that reading. We also had 'no matter what' read at dd2s service. I found it hard as there seems to be a great deal of religion surrounding death. It was difficult to avoid the talk of God and Angels etc.

Thank you all. Moo we won't be trying again, I found it hard enough trying and going through the medical appointments for Leo and that was while I was convinced it would all be ok in the end. I cannot do it again, I can't put my life on hold like that and I can't do it to dd1, especially if something went wrong again. I'm still not entirely convinced I'll get through this unbroken, let alone another loss.

Just read no matter what, so beautiful especially the last paragraph. Had me in tears. Remembering just really resonates I think. DP actually picked that one.

I read the quote, "we're not broken, just bent" the other day. I remind myself of it often x

Thank you diggum.

I love the star stuff passage. I'm struggling to find the actual correct quote, it seems to have been altered slightly. I think the correct version I want is 'we are made of star stuff' but I'm not sure. I think I also want it tattooed somewhere too.

I would have loved the physicist reading at dd2s service but I came upon it afterwards (after a mner linked it)

We have the last line as dd2s plaque: love, like starlight, never dies. Which is why I want something like the star suff quote as it links the 2 together if that makes sense

Sunny, I love that quote, I will remind myself of it when I don't think I can get through this

Kitty my darling I am so so sorry to read your thread, tears here for you and for Leo.

I was posting as spilttheteaagain when we spoke a couple of months ago. 5 years ago my DD1 (1st baby) was stillborn at 20 weeks - toxoplasmosis infection. I had DD2 shortly afterwards, she's 4yo now. On Christmas eve last year my littlest one was diagnosed with acrania/anencephaly and we had a tfmr on New Years Eve, at a bit over 13 weeks. I don't know if you remember but you were a tremendous support at the time and I was and am very grateful. Pathology showed it was a DS and he also had T18 which had probably caused the neural tube etc problems.

I saw you were pregnant and I remembered your circumstances and was so thrilled for you. I just can't believe you've been dealt this hand, it is utterly and breathtakingly unfair.

I know just what you mean as you have described the feeling of "here we go again" into the induction process. It is vile isn't it. Obviously devastating and emotionally gruelling but it's physically so very unpleasant too. The misoprostyl is such a horrible drug, it upset my bowels totally too, I do sympathise, and the super strong antibiotics are very harsh - I actually threw them straight back up.

I saw your questions over milk. Mine came in with my 20 week delivery, but not after my 13 week one, if it helps to know that?

You're right there is a risk of retained products with this sort of gestation. I was told if I felt unwell (temp etc) to see GP for antibiotics. I had minimal bleeding for 2 weeks, then a sudden out of the blue burst of blood/big clots etc (flooded myself and was very shocked, went clammy and white and got the shakes badly), the bleeding then subsided and I had contractions for the next few hours. This pattern (bleeding/clot passing followed by contractions) continued but not as dramatically most days for the next 3-4 weeks and then finally stopped. I did phone the hospital on the first occasion for advice, - they said what I was describing sounded like a healthy pattern of tissue being expelled followed by the uterus contracting down a bit further, and as long as the heavy bleeding subsided each time and the pain didn't get worse and not feeling ill then probably no infection and all ok. They said up to 6 weeks is normal for this to be happening, it can keep going until your first period which can also be heavier than normal too. After that you should get negative pg tests which will tell you the loss is complete.

I expect I'm teaching you to suck eggs but I thought I'd share the experience/advice I got as I saw you were worried about retained products.

My heart goes out to you reading your posts. That eerie sense of deja vu and also the feeling that you know the things that need to happen now and get unsettled when you're not feeling things quite when or how you expected is very familiar. Please be gentle with yourself. You've been through a hell of a trauma with Rose and now been forced to walk step by step through the nightmare again. It triggers a lot of very hard feelings and stirs up older grief and it's just a very complex thing.

I know you are looking for readings. These are the three we used for DS:
It is not growing like a tree
In bulk, doth make Man better be;
Or standing long as oak, three hundred year,
To fall at last, dry, bald, and sere:

A lily of a day Is fairer far in May, Although it fall and die that night— It was the plant and flower of Light. In small proportions we just beauties see; And in short measures life may perfect be.

A butterfly lights beside us, like a sunbeam... and for a brief moment it's glory and beauty belong to our world... but then it flies on again, and although we wish it would have stayed, we are so thankful to have seen it at all.

This was a life that had hardly begun
No time to find your place in the Sun
No time to do all you could have done
But we loved you enough for a lifetime

No time to enjoy the world and it's wealth
No time to take life down off the shelf
No time to sing the songs of yourself
Though you had enough love for a lifetime

Those who live long endure sadness and tears But you'll never suffer the sorrowing years No betrayal, no anger, no hatred, no fears Just love - Only love - In your lifetime.

And another little verse we didn't use but makes me think of his:
"Not flesh of my flesh or bone of my bone, but still miraculously my own. Never forget for a single minute: you didn’t grow under my heart, but in it."

Love to you, these are very dark days xx

Butterfly I do remember you. I was heartbroken by the idea it could happen twice for you. And now here I am!

Those readings are all beautiful, we have 'a butterfly lights beside us' as a poem in our sands boxes. I will read them properly when I'm a bit more emotionally stable

That is helpful to know about the flooding, I feel like that almost needs to happen, like there's stuff in there that isn't coming out (sorry if that's a bit tmi!) That could equally just be my mistrust of my body.

It is lovely to see so many posters I recognise, although, sadly it seems to be because we are all members of the shittiest club ever!

Kitty - I've only just read this, I'm so so sorry.

I had a late loss followed by two earlier ones and it's devastating. I hope you can find a way through this.

Thank you curtains.

I have moments, like now, when I know we'll get through this ok. There are moments, like earlier, where I'm not sure I can even make it through the following hours.

Waves of grief is what I need to remember.

Hang in there. Waves is exactly right and there's not much you can do apart from go with it. The strength of grief can be terrifying at points and then you get those calm pockets where you do normal things and feel bizarrely ok. And then worry about feeling "normal". When you're ready can you get in touch with your counsellor?

We had the '...lifetime' in our Belgian service. It's beautiful. If it would help to know, we had Faith Hill's There you'll be, and Garth Brooks - The Dance as in/out music at the chapel. At the graveside I had The Ashokan Farewell (Jay Ungar) - there's a wonderful version of it by a military band that I adore. There's a website called funeral helper that I found quite useful, during the search for ideas that was one of my coping mechanisms. I was 'lucky' in that, having had DS overseas, I had two services to plan, and time to get the UK one right. Look out for the Waterbugs and Dragonflies reading. We sometimes use it at work to explain death to older siblings (I work in NICU).

That's a lovely quote, Sunny. Good to remember.

Butterfly my counsellor is now my specialist midwife so I am speaking to her tmrw about how to move forward in terms of emotional support.

Chat we are struggling a bit with 3yo dd1. She was very excited to be having a baby brother. I explained that the baby has died and won't be coming, she didn't understand but started to use 'gone' so we went with it. And it seemed to work for a while 'mummy's sad because the babies gone' helped her understand.

However, today she's been asking when the baby is coming back and going back in mummies tummy so ice had a good go at explaining dead to her. We talked about the baby's body not working properly and being broken and so he is dead and not in mummy's tummy anymore so he won't be coming in the summer. She's going round and round in circles with 'I don't like died' which I think she means she doesn't like how it makes us all sad rather than she's scared.

I really feel like I'm at sea with this and have the potential to fuck it up monumentally. She's a fairly bright 3yo but how do you help them understand the concept of death? I don't want to talk about heaven or being in the stars etc as that's not what we believe. I'm asking my specialist mw for some book recommendations tmrw but God knows how I'm going to be able to read them! Dd1s wonderful keyworker at preschool has said she'll read them with her if we want which might work too.

Our DD was 3.9 when DS was born. We did lots of talking about how he died, and so he couldn't come home. How that made us sad, that we couldn't hold him anymore and how he wouldn't grow up like she had. I've never really talked a lot about heaven, though we are religious. MiL has, though. She believes that great-grandma (who died about a year earlier) is looking after the baby as well as several family cats.

Look into "We were gonna have a baby but we had an angel instead". It's a little American, but it's one of very few titles out there which talk about death of babies, aimed at children. Waterbugs and Dragonflies is good for that age group too. I posted in the aftermath of DS's birth about explaining to DD here which you may find useful. She did forget a few times - in the way that 3yo kids do. We did have to repeat it, which hurt like hell. She then started talking about it - a lot, and not always to people we knew. She still does now, and I'm sure she will continue to do so in the future. We have his pictures in the house. 'That's me when I was a baby, that's baby Sam as a baby, but he died' - she likes to look at the pictures.

I'm sure you won't fuck it up. Simple honesty was the route we took.

Thank you chat.

I think we're probably doing the right stuff, simple and repeating when she asks or talks about it. I'm expecting her to talk and ask more as that's the way she processes things. I'm fully expecting her to tell near strangers in the supermarket as she's an outgoing little thing.

She said yesterday that we didn't say goodbye. She didn't get a chance to see him, he was only 13 weeks so he doesn't really look like a baby. I'm now wondering about the service and if she should come as a way to say goodbye to him or that she might not understand at all. Part of me wants that as a private time where I can be as upset as I need to be but I also want to do what's right by her. I will definitely start taking her up to the sands garden to show her his plaque and her little sisters plaque. That might help a bit.