Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 24 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[Brummiegirl15]

New thread for us if it's worked on phone! Will paste stats

PCOS diagnosis is: oligo/amenorrhoea (long often irregular cycles - may often be an ovulatory), scan findings (certain number of follicles on each ovary), other clinical features e.g. prone to acne/excess body hair & biochemical markers e.g. high testosterone & altered LH/FSH ratio.
Often associated raised BMI & metabolic syndrome/diabetes etc.
It's a syndrome so collection of findings though & no one definite test so sometimes people will be on the spectrum & weight loss might tip in or out of some of the symptoms (some would call it the "cure") - though doesn't seem to for me!

Patient.co.uk have good info leaflets.

sally - so sorry to hear what you have been through. Will keep everything crossed for you for your scan tomorrow. Do let us know how you get on.

bunny - my recurrent miscarriage clinic agreed to see me after 2 due to my age (was nearly 38 at that point), so definitely worth pushing to be seen.

loopy - hhmmmm he doesn't sound much use! Could you ask for a telephone consultantation with Dr W??

x

Morgan, well I tick the long cycles, that aren't a set number of days, and the BMI box, and before my mc in Jan I saw a midwife in the new area I moved to and she had mentioned PCOS in passing when she worked out my BMI and I had a mini rant about the fact that they only way I have ever been able to lose weight is to cut my calorie intake to 500-700 per day, and that I refuse to live like that anymore, particularly not since ttc ds1 in 2010, as was the pregnant, breastfeeding, then pregnant with ds2 whilst breastfeeding ds1, then breastfeeding ds2 until end of 2013, and ttc since then with 4 mc under my belt, we weren't ttc from March 2014 until dec 2014 because we were going to move house so decided the stress of that would make ttc pointless, I lost some weight by surviving on evening meals of 400g cauliflower with gravy and fruit, which is fairly filling at that quantity and v low In calories, but have put weight back on since dec14 (1 stone) and had 2 bfps and 2 mc's since then, plus this faint positive in this cycle. The midwife said if I struggle with weight then maybe have PCOS, but then I mentioned this to one of the Julie's at Worcester and she dismissed it as nonsense saying that PCOS causes infertility, not miscarriages. So I never said anything to anyone since then. It was the doctor today who said it when he asked about my cycle length as he was shocked my lmp started 19th April.

I don't eat massive portions, I have a bowl of healthy cereal for breakfast with semi skimmed milk, 2 cups of tea per day, rest of the time is low cal squash, and a glass of milk each day, sandwich, with cherry tomatoes, beetroot, radish and a small packet of crisps for dinner, and then tea varies but never any fried food, and the majority of the time it is food cooked from scratch. I don't drink when ttc, and when not pregnant or ttc I usually have one drink a week at most. Never smoked. My only weakness is if I have a pudding after tea or a bar of chocolate. But it's not a nightly occurrence! Cholesterol isn't too bad, 5.3 when it was checked in Sept. Think I need to find out more, and feeling stupid for not listening to the midwife more in Jan if the doctor today is right.

Great scan news erica and bythesea!

Welcome sally and bunny Sorry you find yourselves here, but you will find nothing but support and hands to hold.

sally Good lluck for your scan tomorrow!

bunny I've had all my miscarriages at 40+, and there was never any question of not being treated like everyone else! Having to wait for testing until you've had 3mcs is sadly the norm, unless you want to go private and pay for it. Ignore the nurse, she has no right to be dismissive. So many here have had results from testing that had nothing to do with age, so definitely push for it. Good luck!

I think I will call the hospital to ask about my scan tomorrow... I should be in the system now, my booking appointment was over a week ago.

Morgan, loopy I have pcos (diagnosed post mcs) and I absolutely think this has been to blame for my mcs. My bmi is highish but not too concerning and I don't have acne or excess body hair but I do have long cycles, follicles on scans and now gestational diabetes which is linked. I don't know exactly how pcos causes mcs but if I was ever going to ttc again I would try agnus castus and a low gi diet. Agnus castus may have been the key difference this time and since being on the low gi diet since gd diagnosis the weight has dropped off and a host of minor health niggles (eye infections, mouth ulcers) have cleared up. I can post more about the diet if it would be helpful?

I have a fairly high BMI - round about 29 - doesn't help I'm 5ft and a size 14... But have very short cycles. But no one has ever mentioned my BMI - does it matter a huge amount?

Following this conversation with interest ladies as I honestly think weight has affected things for me. Whenever my bmi has been over 25 I have taken a long time to conceive and miscarried. I carried my ds to full term at a normal bmi. I've also been told I have low progesterone, low amh and sadly still suffer with acne breakouts at the age of 36!

sally welcome and good luck tomorrow.

bunny welcome, hope you find these ladies as helpful as I have.

erica great news about your scan!

Erica and bythesea, good news, lovely to hear.

wadsy hand hold for tomorrow. I am already bricking it for mine and its over a week away - feeling essentially insane. Hope you are sleeping now!

sally good luck tomorrow

Welcome sally and bunny

mrsd hugs, totally get it, hang in there

Brummie my bmi was over 30 in both successful pregnancies. In fact, I was lighter for mc 4 and it was before comfort eating

Just quick check in as wide awake and dh fast asleep. Hotel is lovely where we are staying but feels like I'm massive all of a sudden and I'm shattered all the time. Comedian Rhod Gilbert is staying here but I've resisted my urges to say anything to him haha.

Welcome to the feed Sally you've had tough times and I hope scan is ok today, the start of brighter things. Do let us know.

Sorry procedure was painful barking. Follicle tracking to check how and when rupture happens, when to take progesterone and when have sex is useful for LP defect but you'd have to go private for that. NHS seems so bent on IVF today. Fingers crossed your tests from the weekend gives new info too.

Can't recall who said they still have spots but I get loads thanks to my progesterone issues. Has been much better than usual during pregnancy though.

Loopy so annoying when you don't get to see the consultant but glad there is a plan in place. Let us know how your hcg levels come back. Fingers are firmly crossed for you!!!

Brummie how are your nerves? Is it your 1st scan this week? I don't think BMI can be the be all and end all but being between the ideal 19-24 category is meant to give the best possible chance. I'm lanky and skinny so made myself gain about half a stone last year to get my BMI up to 21, which the consultant felt would be better than the 18.5 it was before. I will never know if it was a contributing factor but my gut feeling is it wasn't. Women of all shapes and sizes have babies so it's probably just a bit of 'fine tuning' rather than problem solving!

morgan, loopy and longest I'm another PCOS "spectrum" - been diagnosed with it once, then, undiagnosed later! I have excess body hair and multiple cysty follicles, my cycles have been regular ish but are less predictable post mc3, but no acne and have been a bit overweight but not lots. I have done low GI and wheat-free diet from January and have lost a stone, I don't drink either. Who knows if it will help or not! Frankly, anything's worth a punt at this point. I've been having acupuncture too, and my bbt does seem to be stabilising.

wadsy hope it goes well today.

barking well done for getting through the ouchy! Bloody painful.

bootles quick hug for the insane feelings.

I have an EWCM question - the tmi on here is so fun, lucky ladies! Since mc3 I have noticed a real lack of EWCM. Anyone had any issues with this? And anyone been able to improve it?

flen thanks. No real advice on ewcm I'm afraid, apart from to say I do find it varies from cycle to cycle. I'm glad you now have a plan to take progesterone from bfp, and hope its made you feel a bit more comfortable. Everything crossed for next cycle.

march Do you know how soon after a pos opk you ovulate? I tend to be a day or two after, and in the last pg we DTD 4 days before O - I'd say you are still in with a chance if you have been DTD in the last few days. Fingers crossed.

loopy In these early days it really doesn't darken quickly. I know you know this, but each time I worry too despite knowing it. This time I did find testing every other day instead of dai!y, helpful.

Lauren yes I can see why you want to leave no stone unturned before using the frosties. You have already had one of hell of a journey by the sounds of it. I think texta did a post a little way back (possibly in thread 23) where she has listed a very comprehensive collection of tests, and there's a conversation around there about tests beyond RMC clinic and NK cells, which is the route most of us on here are on. I hope you get the chromosome results back soon.

barking glad they got the test done, sorry it was so painful.

On the BMI issue, mine is lowish at about 19 and I had real problems convincing dp it wasn't the cause of the MC's. No doctor has ever mentioned it, but it did make me feel a bit paranoid for a while.

wadsy good luck again

Have to run, sorry to any I have missed x

I don't think bmi is automatically a problem and I was lighter when I had my first mc than with my healthy pregnancies, but a high bmi can exacerbate pcos so if it's that that's causing issues it might be worth trying to lose a bit. With the low gi diet I find I have lost weight really easily. I am having snacks between meals so not going hungry but maybe there was an issue with my metabolism trying to process sugar and carbs.

One thing I have always wondered is whether I have actually lost more than 3 fertilised embryos. Many cycles I have had such strong symptoms (esp nausea) that I have been convinced I must be pg but af has arrived before I got a positive test. I wonder if pcos causes implantation issues that can at any time in early pregnancy. This would be consistent with prof regan's chapter on hormonal causes of mc and the fact that drs have always told me there is a link between pcos and both infertility and miscarriage, though it's not fully understood. The good news is it's a link, not an inevitability. I found once I accepted I had a chance of a healthy pregnancy, even if lower thsn average, I was able to face ttc on no treatment (except agnus castus which seems to help some pcos women).

Really thought things might be gearing up yesterday as gad lots of cramps and backache but it all calmed down as soon as I got into bed. Have someone staying each night until my induction now though so feeling more relaxed.

Welcome Sally and Bunny. Good luck today with the scan and congrats on bfp Sally.

Flen my EWCM disappeared too, but I've not done anything for it. Made identifying ovulation more difficult, but hasn't affected conception. I believe Brummie uses cough medicine though, there was talk of it a few pages back.

Pcos and bmi chat interesting. I had very regular cycles, but short (26day) and they were very light 2-3 days. Plus I've had awful acne (clearer at mo I think due to steroids) and my bmi is in the 40's at 5ft. When I asked Prof Quenby about weight she said she'd found that overweight women did miscarry more often and it was as if their uterus just couldn't quite support the pregnancy. Never had any mention of pcos to me.

Have also been trying low gi, lost 6lb at start of year, but has gone again since. Need to get organised!

Not long now Longest!

Evening primrose is meant to help with EWCM. I used to take it from cd1 until ovulation each month. There is another product I also used to take called FertileCM made by Fairhaven health - excellent reviews on Amazon.

If all else fails then Preseed is probably your best bet. I used to use a syringe and just get it as high as I could and hope it did the trick.

Firstly welcome to the newbies. Hope we can help & provide support.

Good luck Wadsy & hope longest, shortest arrives soon.

In terms of testing my epu have been rubbish and it was only on the advice of the lovely ladies that I have pushed to get any done and finding support of my GP and key other medical personal along the way. If you don't like the first answer keep trying!

As a former "heavy" person (lost 4 stone 10 years ago and kept most of it off since) I monitor my BMI and I had mcs when I've been in the healthy range and when I've been obese. Definitely no link for me.

Talking of being healthy, want to start being healthy again but currently craving chocolate and rubbish food, which I normally get when AF's here. Another reminder have to let my body get over the epau and can't force things. ??Instead off to town later to buy some new trainers so I can start running again.??

closely following comments on pcos... I always thought i couldn't have it as got pregnant so easily, ovaries are normal, never any spots and only normal hair. But i did have g.d and i do fluctuate between size 14-18, and since ds i have really really struggled to get back down. I am sure my weight is an issue. I also remember a consultant i saw when i was pg with ds and diagnosed with g.d inferred the link and suggested i would be prone...But isn't pcos very difficult to diagnose, because it is a 'syndrome'? Longest, what treatment did you have for this pg?

So, partly because i'm worried about the cost/ taking time off and getting dh to drive me down to coventry i decided to ttc this month. Got smiley on sun afternoon and dtd sun and mon night. Wondering if we should again tonight or boat has sailed.

And now i'm worried i have pcos...what if i get pg agaon, and loose again? Maybe i should wait to the autumn, loose weight, go to cov. But then 2 consultants and gp say get going on ttc...this is such a mindfucker!

erica sorry I missed you were having a scan yesterday, great news that it went well.

sebs you wouldn't be human if you didn't get a bit tearful from time to time. I am absolutely sure no one would ever think badly of you for that.

jady my symptoms really went from about 8-10 weeks, cue total terror but then I felt at my worst from 11-14 weeks so don't worry, you might have it all to come

barking sorry it was so painful, let's hope the Pain and Gain saying (which is silly) holds very true in this case!

MrsD

sally and bunny welcome, sally good luck for your scan.

loopy sorry that your appointment wasn't more helpful, hope Monica get's you some answers.

freckle I think you can never know and there will always be something unanswered. You have to go with your gut feeling. I was really unsure about trying a 4th time with no additional testing after NHS tests were clear but it turns out 4th time was my lucky one so I hope it will be the same this time for you!

I'm not convinced of the link between high bmi and fertility. I have a bmi of 19 but it's not helping me!!

longest what dose of angus castus did you take, and when in your cycle? Sorry if you've already said and I've missed it. I don't have pcos but I do have a short lp...

Another one here not convinced that BMI has anything to do with mc. I have had both normal and high BMIs over the past few years, and it has made no difference regarding the mcs. And I certainly struggle with losing weight and keeping it, always have.

I don't know much about PCOS, but I thought that it can be causing infertility/difficulty for ttc, but once you are pg, it has little effect? Unless all hormones are really out of whack, but surely that would be picked up with all the various blood tests that people are having.
I can't remember, but I think that Prof Regan discusses this in her book - I skipped over that bit because it doesn't apply to me.
The problem is that like with everything else, the more people you ask, the more opinions you will get, and there will always be a study somewhere that shows it.

barking, freckle I took 100mg of agnus castus twice a day for two long cycles. The first I wasn't ttc as was waiting for tests. The second I was and ummed and ahed about when to stop taking it. I think I stopped at ov then started again abd then came off it at bfp. I got pregnant first cycle of ttc which I never had before and wonder if the extra progesterone helped implantation and also helped this one to stick. Could be pure coincidence though. It maybe brought ov forward a couple of days that second cycle but nothing dramatic (my cycles are 42 days with ov on about day 28 usually). The first cycle was normal length of 42 days but was a wtf cycle and previous wtf cycles had been 8 weeks or so with positive hpts for longer too though again could be coincidence.

I wasn't on any other treatment until my 8 week scan when they put me on progesterone and increased folic acid but I was past my danger zone by then.

I wouldn't put of ttc because of pcos. There is no cure as such but I would consider trying the low gi diet and ac while ttc and possibly continuing the diet while pg. Totally up to you though. I didn't start the diet till gdm diagnosis at 27 weeks so it wasn't a factor in this pregnancy succeeding but I just feel so much healthier on it that in retrospect I think it could have been worth a try sooner.

Flen I used cough medicine and evening primrose oil to help my EWCM.

Start using evening primrose. - 2000mg on cd 1 until ovulation. Then approx. 5 days before ovulation start taking cough medicine until after you ovulate. 3 x a day (2 teaspoons) needs to be a chesty cough one as it needs to include the ingredient guafensin (crap spelling!) plus you must drink water. The cough medicine cannot increase your cm but it can thin out what is already there.

I also use preseed which you can buy on Amazon.

So, I told my Directors today - they've stopped me going to Brussels - which is a relief if I'm honest, bearing in mind the timing ( I'd be 8.5 wks - when I've lost my babies previously )

They've left it up to me about Milan this weekend. I'll be 5+2 and I don't know what to do. I do really want to go as it's important work wise and my feeling is if stuff goes wrong at this early stage. There is nothing I can do.

Thoughts?

Brummie I don't mean to sound harsh, but going or not going on that trip will not make any difference, IMO. Whatever is going to happen is -most likely- already decided, and there is nothing that you can do about it.
You have already everything covered in terms of what you can do - ie. drugs/treatments, so unless you feel that travelling itself might be an acute risk or you are so totally freaked out by the idea of it, I would say go to Milan. I find that at least trying to keep everything as normal as possible helped me to deal with anxiety a little bit.
Just my thoughts!

I think it would completely depend on how you feel Brummie. I felt sick quite early on and getting in a car was a struggle, but if you feel relatively well then there's no reason not to. As you say if anything did happen you might still have to wait til 6 weeks before getting scan anyway.

My booking in appointment with midwife today. A first for me. Not entirely sure what to expect. Can anyone tell me what the urine sample is for?

Thanks Bythesea, your response this morning actually brought a tear to my eye. I'm trying not to worry and be pleased I'm not throwing up everywhere, but there's that dread lurking still.

Any news yet Sally?

I think you are absolutely right Cloud and I know at 5 weeks if anything happened then I could deal with it.

Brussels is different - and I think I would be stressed worrying about what "might happen" so whilst I'm gutted to not be going, I'm relieved that the decision has been taken out of my hands, because I know it's all I would think about and I would have a job to do.

Milan is mooching around an event at a venue that we are bidding for. So it's do everything In my own time if that makes sense?