Recurrent Buns - MC Testing and Beyond... Part 4...!!!

[Julezboo]

Gosh we can chat ladies!!!

Part one HERE

Part two HERE

Part three HERE

List

STARTING TESTING

LAF77 , Age 33, MC1 (7 weeks Apr 10) MC2 (5 weeks Sept 10) MC3 (9 weeks Dec 10). All have been natural mcs and number 1 and 3 were embryonic for sure. No children, no RMC appt, no diagnosis and not TTC.
PANDA 3MMC, no.1 (embryonic loss - empty sac) 7weeks, no.2 at 12 weeks, no.3 at 8 weeks. Awaiting raft of tests for recurrent MC
CLAIREDELOON Age 38 1st mmc, development stopped approx 5 weeks (2007), 2nd mmc development stopped at approx 6 weeks (2009), 3rd mc development stopped at 9 weeks after seeing hb at 8+3 (2010). Bicornate uterus, starting testing Feb 2011.
NOTSOBARRENBROOK Age 35. 1st mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2009), 2nd mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2010), 3rd mmc @ 11 weeks, development stopped at 6 weeks 3 days (March 2010), 4th mmc @ 5 weeks (August 2010). Possible adenomyosis, awaiting hsg and results of testing from St Mary's.
MILKYWAY2007 Age 27 - DD age 3. 1st MC Oct
2009, 6 weeks. 2nd MMC March 2010, 11 weeks (baby passed away at 7 weeks). 3rd MC July 2010, 6 weeks. 4th MMC 24 Jan 2011, 9 weeks - no amniotic sac, baby measured 7weeks 4 days, no HB, had seen a healthy HB at 7 weeks. Blood clotting, hormone, genetic karyotype and shape and health of uterus checked and all clear - although high prolactin level found. Waiting for appointment at RMC with consultant, and wanting to be referred to St Mary's.
LUCKYFOR2 Age 32 - DD age 5. DD age 3. 1st MC May 2010 found at 12 week scan passed away at 9 weeks. 2nd MC September 2010 natural at 8 weeks. 3nd MC January 2011 at 16 weeks, saw hb at 13 but no hb at 15.5. Bloods taken from me and DH at hospital at last MC and awaiting results on baby from PM.
IGGI2011 - Age 40, 3 year old DS. 3 MC last year, at 6, 8 and 8 weeks. Last two had hb detected. Having bloods taken by obs soon.

UNDERGOING TREATMENT

CRYSTAL5 Age 38 - DS age 4. 6 m/c 1 at 11 weeks, 5 at 5/6 weeks. Ok blood tests, under Endocrinologist for Hypothyroid
BANANA87 Age 30- 1mmc@7 weeks, DD (2), 1 mmc 6 weeks, 1 mc 7 weeks, currently waiting one more cycle before TTC. Going to try aspirin and progesterone as per consultant. Clotting bloods normal.

TTC

MUMMYABROAD Age 35, 1DS (2.9), 1MMC Mar 2010 (@14weeks) Ashermans diagnosis and treatment Nov 2010, Started TTC Jan 2011 Cycle 1
DIGITALGIRL Age 32 - DS 2.4 - 3MCs since ttc#2. MC1 5wks. MC2 6-7wks. MC3 7-8wks. Awaiting clotting & karyotyping results, under consultant care for rmc. Mild pcos. Currently TTC.
LOVEMYSLEEP Age 39, 1 mmc, dd born(now 5), 2nd mc (9wks, 2days), 3rd mc (9wks, 3days) and 4th mc at 5 wks. All tests on NHS came back clear. Currently undergoing treatment with Dr.Shehata for very high natural killer cells

PREGNANT

LUNATIC dd1(4) 2 mmc (8 wks) dd2 stillborn (32+5), clotting problem, pg #5 section booked for 9th Feb @ 35wks. On 150mg aspirin daily.
GLITTERYBITS 1 anembryonic MC (12 weeks), unexplained infertility, 1 round of clomid, currently pg and terrified!
JUSTMEE Age 21, MC1 (7 weeks), MC2 (6weeks), MC3 (5weeks) currently pregnant with 4th pregnancy using clexane injecting 20mg a day
LADYBEE 37, MC1 (5wks), DS (2), MC2 blighted ovum discovered @ 8 wk scan, MC3 natural @ 9 wks following hb seen at 7 1/2 wk. PCOS previously diagnosed, Factor V Leiden heterozygote discovered in recent testing. Treatment with aspirin (from BFP) + clexane started at 6 weeks.
LOVELYBUNCHOFCOCONUTS Age 23, 1 MC (13 weeks), 1 MMC (10 weeks - growth stopped at 7), 1DD born 2008, PCOS diagnosis, bi-cornuate uterus.
HAIRYFAIRYLIGHTS
HAIRYCLAREYFAIRY

GRADUATES WITH BABIES!!

STILLFRAZZLED Age 35, DS1 (3.6yo), 1 mc @ 5 weeks Jan 09, 2nd mc @ 9 weeks March 09, DS2 born @ 35+3 on 04/01/11 with Intra Uterine Growth Restriction and currently in Special Care Baby Unit.
MUMATRON Age 28 2 dc then 4mc, 3 @9weeks 1@5weeks, tests showed possible free protein s ishoo. dd2 born 06/01/2011, aspirin, claxane and high dose folic acid through pg.
JULEZBOO Age 29 1 mc @ 14 wks, DS1 (8yo) 4 mc @ 5/6 wks, DS2 (3) 2 mc @7 wks... DS3 (14/01/11 @35 wks) Dx with Factor V Leiden and Septate Uterus. Clexane and Aspirin throughout pregnancy and progesterone with DS3.

Will do a catch up post now...

Freelance Hi - I have read that selenium is really good for high thyroid antibodies and for fertility and miscarriage so its good your taking that.

I am under Dr Shehata and his programme involves taking steroids for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy along with cyclogest (and aspirin, folic acid, omega oil) Have you been tested for killer cells? Often the two can go hand in hand. I tested for both and both results came back positive and high. Apparently high thyroid antibodies can affect implantation and cause miscarriage. I was lucky in that I seemed to get pregnant relatively quickly but I had two chemicals at the end of last year in addition to a MMC at 12 weeks in July.

Hope this is of help and answers your question

Thanks mattsmama that's all good info. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

My doc has referred me to St Mary's but I am still not sure whether they will see me as my first 2 mcs were 15/16 years ago and I have only had a third now with a different partner. So no, haven't been tested for killer cells but have asked for NHS tests including selenium levels, thyroid antibodies, sticky blood. Wonder if they can do killer cells just via my GP?

Am already taking pre-pg Sanatogen with Omega 3 and just started on the Selenium now. Going to docs tomorrow to get exact figures but I know my antibodies are still high although my thyroid levels are now normal.

I also discovered the mc at 12 weeks after contractions and bleeding but it turned out it had been a mmc at 7.3 weeks ish. It only took me 3 half-hearted ttc attempts to get pg but am v worried will have another mc, particularly concerning my past experience. So thanks so much for the advice.

freelance - I'm not sure if they will test for killer cells on the NHS but it's definitely worth a shot. Mr Shehata does NHS work too at Epsom Hospital I think - so if your in that sort of vicinity it might be worth asking for a referral to see him? I'm not sure St Mary's do the killer cells test at all and Professor Regan who I believe is at St Mary's is against the killer cells theory.

My thyroid levels have been normal for years now and my conception levels were described as "perfect" by my NHS endocrinologist my TSH has been around 0.68 for a long time now and T4 of 20. However it didn't stop me miscarrying and having 2 chemical pregnancies so it really does lend weight to the argument about high thyroid antibodies (my level of antibodies was 597).

Don't know if you have heard of Dr Alan Beer's book "Is your Body Baby Friendly" but it is well worth a read. In that book Dr Beer says he always assumes the presence of killer cells until proven otherwise when there are high thyroid antibodies. He was right in my case. Your MMC sounds the same as both of mine - the miscarriages didn't start until week 12 but I was told they both probably actually miscarried at around the 7/8 week mark.

Incidentally - the first month of TTC on Dr Shehata's plan we got pregnant (and I am 41). Makes you think doesn't it? If I can help with anything else don't hesitate to ask. Good luck

Mattsmama Thanks so much for all that information. Your case does sound very similar to mine. I want to say congratulations on your pg but you don't say if you are still pg after the first time of trying. Hope so!

I got my antibodies results back today and am negative for nuclear and some others (still waiting for antophospholipid - sp?) and my thyroid antibodies are 436. So definitely high. Your TSH and T4 results are nice (if one can say such a thing!). Mine are ok too at 0.13 and 19 respectively.

Maybe I have gone down the wrong route in the referral for St Mary's I am v worried they won't accept me anyway - and should ask for a referral for Dr Shehata. Is he (she?) very restrictive about who is referred? My previous two mcs were 15 years ago so haven't had three recurrent officially.

I have ordered Dr Beer's book now too! And one of Mary Shomon's about thyroid and pregnancy.

Just wondering if there is anything I can do myself in case I don't get a referral - as well as this 200mcg of selenium. Terrified it will happen again.

Thanks Lunatic, Purequeen and others for your responses too. Have started a separate thread on this so as not to clog up this board so if anyone has anymore advice please post! xx

:( was meant to be having hysteroscopy today but have a cold (first one in over a year, great timing) so can't have a general anaesthetic. Very fed up and stressy.

freelance Hi Yes - I am still pregnant (and still very nervous!) I had my first scan with Mr Shehata last week and it was all looking very good. I have to have another next week and I am still nervous but feeling more positive!

He will definitely see you - he doesn't have restrictions on the number of miscarriages you have had so don't worry about that. I don't know how the referral system works on the NHS though to see him. Also don't worry about the St Mary's thing either - you are covering all your options and you can get as much information as you can. I have to say though that Dr Shehata is brilliant.

I also tested negative for anti-nuclear antibodies and yes your TSH and T4 results are perfect for conception as were mine. Glad you ordered Dr Beer's book - it is fascinating stuff!

PS where is the new thread - tried finding it but couldn't

Here, have called it high thyroid antibodies-MC or similar.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/1187521-High-thyroid-antibodies-MC

Right, I think I definitely will ask my GP for a referral for Dr Shehata. That all sounds brilliant. Congratulations on the pregnancy!! I am sure you can't help being scared. But sounds like you have the right support this time so everything should go well!

I am now a bit afraid my GP is going to think am a PITA, but I don't care and will go ahead and ask her anyway.

ClairedeLoon - hope you feel better soon, can understand you feeling bummed about missing the appointment.
Matt do you think it's the treatment you're on that's made the difference? Really glad it's going well for you.

ClairedeLoon - hope you feel better soon, can understand you feeling bummed about missing the appointment.
Matt do you think it's the treatment you're on that's made the difference? Really glad it's going well for you.

Not much news from me. I'm on another work trip which has taken me back to the location where MC 3 started, so it isn't going to be an easy night's sleep for me. So many emotional markers within 2 weeks, but knowing that I will start testing next week gives me strength to carry on.

Clare how long before they can fit you in again?

How did your appointment go last week iggi

Thinking of you glittery and digital

I had my thyroid levels checked and they came back normal. Is that the same as thyroid antibodies? Does St Mary's test for that too?

OK, I've updated the list now with Lunatic's and Mattsmama's details, so when we are ready for a new thread, it is ready too. It's quite a list!

STARTING TESTING
HAVINGKITTENS Age 41 - MMC1 Nov 07 8wks (discovered due to bleeding at 10.5wks) ERPC, TOP1 for TS21 Aug 08, TOP2 for TS21 Feb 09, TOP incomplete, ERPC performed, Genetic Counselling & tests confirmed no chromosome problems with us, "just bad luck ", MMC2 Feb 10 5.5wks (seen at 8wk scan, no bleeding), MMC3 May 10 (as MMC2), RMC testing at UCH, no cause found - empirical 75mg asprin & vit D + early & regular scans for next pregnancy, MMC4 No fetal pole seen at 6.5 wks, follow up scan 10 days later, told of MMC, then "Something" spotted so instructed to wait another week before they would allow ERPC, ERPC a week later, waiting for NK Cell test results from Dr Shehata on NHS, taking 75mg Asprin, Vit D, Pregnacare Plus (w/Omega 3), 5mg Folic Acid (been taking since 1st TOP to try & prevent TS21 or similar issues), awaiting follow up telephone consultation appointment.
HAIRYLIGHTS, age 42, MC1 (Jun 10, very low HCG, suspected ectopic, methotrexate), MC 2 (Nov 22 2010, MMC,ERPC, no heart beat at ten weeks, fetus 8 week size), MC3 (MMC - Medical Management, Feb 13 2011, MMC at 7 week scan). Waiting to TTC
LAF77 , Age 33, MC1 (7 weeks Apr 10) MC2 (5 weeks Sept 10) MC3 (9 weeks Dec 10). All have been natural mcs and number 1 and 3 were embryonic . No children, First appointment with St. Mary's in April.
PANDA 3MMC, no.1 (embryonic loss - empty sac) 7weeks, no.2 at 12 weeks, no.3 at 8 weeks. Awaiting raft of tests for recurrent MC
CLAIREDELOON Age 38 1st mmc, development stopped approx 5 weeks (2007), 2nd mmc development stopped at approx 6 weeks (2009), 3rd mc development stopped at 9 weeks after seeing hb at 8+3 (2010). Bicornate uterus, starting testing Feb 2011.
NOTSOBARRENBROOK Age 35. 1st mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2009), 2nd mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2010), 3rd mmc @ 11 weeks, development stopped at 6 weeks 3 days (March 2010), 4th mmc @ 5 weeks (August 2010). Possible adenomyosis, awaiting hsg and results of testing from St Mary's.
MILKYWAY2007 Age 28 - DD age 3. 1st MC Oct 2009, 6 weeks. 2nd MMC March 2010, 11 weeks (baby passed away at 7 weeks). 3rd MC July 2010, 6 weeks. 4th MMC 24 Jan 2011, 9 weeks - no amniotic sac, baby measured 7weeks 4 days, no HB, had seen a healthy HB at 7 weeks. Blood clotting, hormone, genetic karyotype and shape and health of uterus checked and all clear. High dose folic acid prescribed.
LUCKYFOR2 Age 32 - DD age 5. DD age 3. 1st MC May 2010 found at 12 week scan passed away at 9 weeks. 2nd MC September 2010 natural at 8 weeks. 3nd MC January 2011 at 16 weeks, saw hb at 13 but no hb at 15.5. All tests have come back clear. Going to take Aspirin and Progesterone in next pregnancy (will be on Promise trial) currently ttc.
IGGI999 - Age 40, 3 year old DS. 3 MC last year, at 6, 8 and 8 weeks. Last two had hb detected. NHS blood tests came back clear, except for presence of antinuclear antibodies. To take aspirin for this. Going to see Shehata in May as think steroids are needed.
CONFU3ED - Age 35 1st MC 1998 14 weeks. DD age 11. 2nd MC July 2009 5.5 weeks. ERPC Twice. No tests. 6 months Clomid 3rd MC January 2010. The foetus sent for testing - came back fine. Been referred to recurrent MC clinic at the hospital for tests, waiting for appointment. Was told I have PCOS through a scan but never diagnosed.

UNDERGOING TREATMENT
CRYSTAL5 Age 38 - DS age 4. 6 m/c 1 at 11 weeks, 5 at 5/6 weeks. Ok blood tests, under Endocrinologist for Hypothyroid
LADYBEE 37, MC1 (5wks), DS (2), MC2 blighted ovum discovered @ 8 wk scan, MC3 natural @ 9 wks following hb seen at 7 1/2 wk. PCOS previously diagnosed, Factor V Leiden heterozygote discovered in recent testing. Treatment with aspirin (from BFP) + clexane started at 6 weeks. MC4 MMC @ 8.1 wks (discovered @ 11 wk scan) following hb seen at 6+6 wks. Consultant suggests aspirin + clexane to start at 4 weeks, plus progesterone pessaries. Management of MC tbc.
DIGITALGIRL Age 32 - DS 2.7 - 4MCs since ttc#2. MC1 5wks. MC2 6-7wks. MC3 7-8wks. MC4 8 weeks. All natural, except MC4 managed with ERPC for karyotyping purposes. Hormone levels fine, but taking Metformin for mild PCOS. Clotting tests all normal. DH & my karyotyping normal. Awaiting results from ERPC karyotyping, plus test results for NK Cells, anti-nuclear anti-bodies and anti-thyroid antibodes. Will be under Dr Shehata's treatment program if high nk cells are found. Waiting to TTC.
PUREEQUEEN Age 34, MC1 (7 weeks Jan 08) MC2 (6 weeks March 08), DS born (prem) 2009, MC3 (9 weeks Oct 10). MC4 Jan 2011. First 2 natural mcs latter 2 mmc/ERPCs. Chromosome test MC4 showed she had a genetic abnormality (cri du chat). Karotyping for me and DH fine but with "increase in length on satellite of short arm 13 and 15" (??) . Also have endo &septate uterus. Now TTC and will take aspirin and progesterone.

PREGNANT
MATTSMAMA Aged 41. 1st MMC November 2004. My DS (who I love with all my heart) born 2006. 2nd MMC July 2010. 2 chemical pregnancies September and October 2010. Under Dr Shehata and got BFP on first round of treatment for high thyroid antibodies and high killer cells.
BANANA87 Age 30- 1mmc@7 weeks, DD (2), 1 mmc 6 weeks, 1 mc 7 weeks, Going to try aspirin and progesterone as per consultant. Clotting bloods normal.
MUMMYABROAD Age 36, 1DS (2.9), 1MMC Mar 2010 (@14weeks) Ashermans diagnosis and treatment Nov 2010, Started TTC Jan 2011 BFP on Cycle 2 EDD 4/11/11
GLITTERYBITS 1 anembryonic MC (12 weeks), unexplained infertility, 1 round of clomid, currently pg and terrified!
JUSTMEE Age 21, MC1 (7 weeks), MC2 (6weeks), MC3 (5weeks) currently pregnant with 4th pregnancy using clexane injecting 20mg a day
LOVELYBUNCHOFCOCONUTS Age 23, 1 MC (13 weeks), 1 MMC (10 weeks - growth stopped at 7), 1DD born 2008, PCOS diagnosis, bi-cornuate uterus. EDD 03/10/11
LOVEMYSLEEP Age 39, 1 mmc, dd born(now 5), 2nd mc (9wks, 2days), 3rd mc (9wks, 3days) and 4th mc at 5 wks. All tests on NHS came back clear. Currently undergoing treatment with Dr.Shehata for very high natural killer cells - aspirin, progesterone, steroids, omezaprole and one intralipid infusion completed.

GRADUATES WITH BABIES!!
LUNATIC LUNATIC dd1(4) 2 mmc (8 wks) dd2 stillborn (32+5). Seen at St Mary's. clotting problem, pg #5 aspirin 150g daily. Ds1 born 9/2/11 c/s @ 35 wks
STILLFRAZZLED Age 35, DS1 (3.6yo), 1 mc @ 5 weeks Jan 09, 2nd mc @ 9 weeks March 09, DS2 born @ 35+3 on 04/01/11 with Intra Uterine Growth Restriction but currently home and doing well.
MUMATRON Age 28 2 dc then 4mc, 3 @9weeks 1@5weeks, tests showed possible free protein s ishoo. dd2 born 06/01/2011, aspirin, claxane and high dose folic acid through pg.
JULEZBOO Age 29 1 mc @ 14 wks, DS1 (8yo) 4 mc @ 5/6 wks, DS2 (3) 2 mc @7 wks... DS3 (14/01/11 @35 wks) Dx with Factor V Leiden and Septate Uterus. Clexane and Aspirin throughout pregnancy and progesterone with DS3.

Hi LAF77 Just a quickie as am in the middle of something but no thyroid antibodies are not the same as thyroid levels. You can have normal thyroid levels and still test positive for antibodies. Your GP should be able to arrange a test for them though so do ask for one. Good luck and sorry to hear you are in a stressful situation which holds bad memories. Lovely to see all the pregnant and graduates listed too xx

iggi yes 100% I think the treatment has helped me. I got pregnant three times last year. 1 mmc and then 2 chemicals at the end of the year. On the first month of taking the steroids I got pregnant and although it is still very very early days and I am still MEGA nervous I am still pregnant. I just wish I had got tested sooner!

I remember reading about killer cells after my MC last year and thinking no - that can't possibly apply to me but then I read about Rod Stewart's wife who also had killer cells and had to take steroids. There were too many similiarities and I knew I had to at least have my levels tested because I would always wonder if I hadn't at least done that.

That's good to hear Mattsmama. Though to be honest the thought of letting myself even start to hope again is very difficult.
LAF returning to a place with such rotten memories must be so hard. Hope you get through it ok.

That's good to hear Mattsmama. Though to be honest the thought of letting myself even start to hope again is very difficult.
LAF returning to a place with such rotten memories must be so hard. Hope you get through it ok.

Thanks hairy. It comes and goes but I'm (rather strangely) becoming a bit more accepting about bleeding being the norm. Probably not advised, but you can't keep up such a high level of anxiety for very long. I've become a bit obsessive with the doppler and prodding my tummy for movement. Hopefully, if and when I finally have an appt with someone when they're supposed to see me, I might be able to offload a few of my concerns. In the meantime, I'm just trying to get through each day without going too mad. I'm sorry to hear about the added stresses of a divorce. However, you're probably onto something in that you're now at a place (psychologically at least) where you're ready and things will fall into place once you've got complete closure. Fingers crossed.

Waves to Julez and Lunatic.

Julez Sorry to hear about Oliver's allergy, but at least you know what you're dealing with now. I hope the soy milk continues to work for him.

Lunatic 7 and a half pounds is fabulous. Glad he is in less discomfort now. And yes, you can blather as much as you like.

pure I'm so sorry to hear you've been in hospital with DS. I'm sorry, I must have missed the part about his health issue. Hope it's nothing too serious? Great when doctors ask searching questions about siblings, isn't it? I know they have to, but it just reinforces the upset, doesn't it?

Claire I'm not surprised you feel fed up and stressy. Hope they can reschedule your appt soon.

LAF Hope you're holding up okay. Certain places have a habit of bringing back hideous memories. Thinking of you.

Waves to everyone else! x

Just a quickie from me, sorry I don't have much time so no personals. Hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the glorious weather.

Just got a call from Dr Shehata's secretary. Turns out my NK Cells are 145 which is apparently almost double what they should be. So, she's sending me a prescription for 4 cycles of Prednisolone and Progesterone to start on when I get a BFP.

Scary, but positive. Let's hope this will be 7th time lucky for me!

x

Hi all just a quickie from me. Just to let you know I am ok and still about, doppler is here and after a palaver with ultrasound gel and batteries got it working and found hb this morn.

Have been away due to FIL passing away early Sat morn after a 7 week battle with stomach and gullet cancer, ended up spreading everywhere. Trying to be there for and strong for DH and MIL. DD proving to be a happy release for everyone so as you can expect have been busy with funeral arrangements and those first few days of shock and practicalities.

Got our new guinea pigs yesterday too and had a massive electricity inspection this monring so no power all morning.

All up in the air hoping to get back to normal in a coulple of weeks after funeral.

Love to you all, hoope you are all well xx

kittens At least you have a plan of action now. Yes, it's scary, but in some ways it's something of a relief to know that there is actually a problem that they can hopefully do something about.

Coconuts Very sorry to hear that. I hope you're all as okay as can be expected. It's tough being a rock when you're struggling with things yourself, but it's great that DD is providing a spot of well-needed, light relief for everyone. Hugs. x

Coconuts sorry to hear about your FIL. I totally understand what you mean about a happy release though. So much better than seeing those you love suffering.

Glittery I'm not really scared about the treatment programme, although slightly nervous about the insomnia aspect of it on the occasions that I have to work a 14+ hr day starting at 7am. Apart from that, the scary bit is more the whole idea of pregnancy again, getting to a stage (the end probably!) when I feel sure that nothing is going to go wrong both with regards to miscarriage or Nuchal scan results etc. I was scared enough trying again the 4th time when miscarriage wasn't really something I was that worried about!

Quick question for those having similar treatment - did you use OPKs? If so which ones? I have been using the internet cheapie ones which seem to work for me but as I now have to pin point ovulation more accurately if I'm to start taking these steroids on the day of ovulation. With the ones I've been using, as far as I understand, the lines come up when the hormone surge takes place which is just prior to ovulation so I have always assumed that the day the line no longer shows up is the day that ovulation actually occurs (which seems to fit in with the pain I have in whichever side it's coming from). Is this assumption correct? Or is there a more accurate brand that can help me pin point it more specifically? I've not tried any of the temperature taking/charting stuff before but assume you have to do that for a few months before recognising a pattern.

I'm not under any treatment, and wasn't when conceived but I used the internet cheapy dipstick OPKs and got on really well with them. For a positive the line has to be darker or as dark as the control line, so a pale line is a negative. I got my first positive, SWI, next day another positive, SWI again = BFP @ 12dpo That was the first day I ovulated in about 8 months so pretty lucky really.

I had only just started charting that month so didn't get the chance to notice a regular pattern so cannot comment if that was useful for me as I didn't need it in the end :)

I also have not tried any other brand of ovulation test but many people swear by the CB fertility monitor and think there is a thread about it in conception. But the cheapys are great IMO.

kittens I got my OPKs from a site called Access Diagnostics. It comes up straightaway if you type it into Google. I found that I ovulated about 12-24 hours after I first got two lines (I think!) but, no matter how expensive the tests, they are not absolutely specific or foolproof when it comes to pinpointing ovulation time because they can only guarantee that you will ovulate within the next 2 days. Also, there is much room for debate as to what constitutes a positive. The manufacturers tend to say that the test line has to be as strong in colour (and as wide) as the control line, but a lot depends on the time of day you take the test, how much you've drunk, whether or not your progesterone levels are high enough etc. If you want more info, have a laugh at www.peeonastick.com to show you just how complex and obsessive the process can become if you let it! I got cheapie tests, because I found the best chance of catching the surge was to take two tests a day. One just after lunch and another in the evening. Unlike pg tests, FMU is no good for OPKs. Some women can miss their surge entirely because it happens within a matter of hours. Others are lucky enough to get a spot of warning before it occurs.

The only absolutely surefire way of pinpointing ovulation is to have scans of your ovaries/ follicles every other day until the egg is released - and even then - you will still only be within 12 -24 hours. A blood test following ovulation will prove that it either has or has not happened too, but it's not an exact science. I'd ask your consultant how exact it needs to be. I'm sure you can't be the only one who's had this issue. I remember having similar problems when trying to determine when to class cd1 as cd1 when i had endless spotting issues.

The best bet is to correlate your fertility signs and make as educated an estimate as you can. I appreciate you need a few months to do this - so probably not ideal, but it might be worth charting anyway to get a better handle on what's going on. If you fancy wandering down this road to mad obsession you need to start taking your temp every morning at roughly the same time before you do anything else - and checking your cervix for egg white cervical mucous (I know - nice!). When all the signs point to fertile, you can safely assume that you're ovulating - unless, like me, everything is completely haywire and drives you completely bonkers. I did find that charting over many long months gave me some indication of a pattern. It also confirmed my belief that something was a bit pear-shaped with my innards! The temping is useful, because a lot of people get a temp drop just prior to ovulation and then a temp shift immediately after - leaving you to assume that ovulation occurred a day before the rise. Unfortunately this is obviously historical info, which is why you need to chart for a few months and then you can start guessing.

Anyway, I'm waffling. Have you looked at the fertility friend website? There is heaps of info on fertility signs etc. on there which might help.

Thanks you two. I'm actually very familiar with the workings of the internet cheapies. I think the ones I get from homehealth-uk are the same type. I have been getting dark lines of them too, usually when I test around lunchtime. I was just wondering if starting the steroids when the dark line first came up was a bit too early or not because of ovulation happening 12-24 hours later. I guess I will just start taking them when I get a +ve OPK then.

I have looked at the charting info before but the problem is I don't get EWCM at all. Forgive the sharing but mine is pretty thick and creamy at the time of ovulation which one would assume would make conception tricky but it doesn't seem to be an issue as I conceive pretty quickly. The other, quite funny but slightly annoying, thing is that I have really small hands and struggle to reach my cervix so it's hard to tell the position etc. Anyway, I have found the OPKs a pretty fail safe method when it comes to the TTC - especially as you are fertile in the few days before ovulation because of the "journey" it was just that I thought you had to take the steroids on the day of actual ovulation.