Recurrent Buns - MC Testing and Beyond... Part 4...!!!

[Julezboo]

Gosh we can chat ladies!!!

Part one HERE

Part two HERE

Part three HERE

List

STARTING TESTING

LAF77 , Age 33, MC1 (7 weeks Apr 10) MC2 (5 weeks Sept 10) MC3 (9 weeks Dec 10). All have been natural mcs and number 1 and 3 were embryonic for sure. No children, no RMC appt, no diagnosis and not TTC.
PANDA 3MMC, no.1 (embryonic loss - empty sac) 7weeks, no.2 at 12 weeks, no.3 at 8 weeks. Awaiting raft of tests for recurrent MC
CLAIREDELOON Age 38 1st mmc, development stopped approx 5 weeks (2007), 2nd mmc development stopped at approx 6 weeks (2009), 3rd mc development stopped at 9 weeks after seeing hb at 8+3 (2010). Bicornate uterus, starting testing Feb 2011.
NOTSOBARRENBROOK Age 35. 1st mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2009), 2nd mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2010), 3rd mmc @ 11 weeks, development stopped at 6 weeks 3 days (March 2010), 4th mmc @ 5 weeks (August 2010). Possible adenomyosis, awaiting hsg and results of testing from St Mary's.
MILKYWAY2007 Age 27 - DD age 3. 1st MC Oct
2009, 6 weeks. 2nd MMC March 2010, 11 weeks (baby passed away at 7 weeks). 3rd MC July 2010, 6 weeks. 4th MMC 24 Jan 2011, 9 weeks - no amniotic sac, baby measured 7weeks 4 days, no HB, had seen a healthy HB at 7 weeks. Blood clotting, hormone, genetic karyotype and shape and health of uterus checked and all clear - although high prolactin level found. Waiting for appointment at RMC with consultant, and wanting to be referred to St Mary's.
LUCKYFOR2 Age 32 - DD age 5. DD age 3. 1st MC May 2010 found at 12 week scan passed away at 9 weeks. 2nd MC September 2010 natural at 8 weeks. 3nd MC January 2011 at 16 weeks, saw hb at 13 but no hb at 15.5. Bloods taken from me and DH at hospital at last MC and awaiting results on baby from PM.
IGGI2011 - Age 40, 3 year old DS. 3 MC last year, at 6, 8 and 8 weeks. Last two had hb detected. Having bloods taken by obs soon.

UNDERGOING TREATMENT

CRYSTAL5 Age 38 - DS age 4. 6 m/c 1 at 11 weeks, 5 at 5/6 weeks. Ok blood tests, under Endocrinologist for Hypothyroid
BANANA87 Age 30- 1mmc@7 weeks, DD (2), 1 mmc 6 weeks, 1 mc 7 weeks, currently waiting one more cycle before TTC. Going to try aspirin and progesterone as per consultant. Clotting bloods normal.

TTC

MUMMYABROAD Age 35, 1DS (2.9), 1MMC Mar 2010 (@14weeks) Ashermans diagnosis and treatment Nov 2010, Started TTC Jan 2011 Cycle 1
DIGITALGIRL Age 32 - DS 2.4 - 3MCs since ttc#2. MC1 5wks. MC2 6-7wks. MC3 7-8wks. Awaiting clotting & karyotyping results, under consultant care for rmc. Mild pcos. Currently TTC.
LOVEMYSLEEP Age 39, 1 mmc, dd born(now 5), 2nd mc (9wks, 2days), 3rd mc (9wks, 3days) and 4th mc at 5 wks. All tests on NHS came back clear. Currently undergoing treatment with Dr.Shehata for very high natural killer cells

PREGNANT

LUNATIC dd1(4) 2 mmc (8 wks) dd2 stillborn (32+5), clotting problem, pg #5 section booked for 9th Feb @ 35wks. On 150mg aspirin daily.
GLITTERYBITS 1 anembryonic MC (12 weeks), unexplained infertility, 1 round of clomid, currently pg and terrified!
JUSTMEE Age 21, MC1 (7 weeks), MC2 (6weeks), MC3 (5weeks) currently pregnant with 4th pregnancy using clexane injecting 20mg a day
LADYBEE 37, MC1 (5wks), DS (2), MC2 blighted ovum discovered @ 8 wk scan, MC3 natural @ 9 wks following hb seen at 7 1/2 wk. PCOS previously diagnosed, Factor V Leiden heterozygote discovered in recent testing. Treatment with aspirin (from BFP) + clexane started at 6 weeks.
LOVELYBUNCHOFCOCONUTS Age 23, 1 MC (13 weeks), 1 MMC (10 weeks - growth stopped at 7), 1DD born 2008, PCOS diagnosis, bi-cornuate uterus.
HAIRYFAIRYLIGHTS
HAIRYCLAREYFAIRY

GRADUATES WITH BABIES!!

STILLFRAZZLED Age 35, DS1 (3.6yo), 1 mc @ 5 weeks Jan 09, 2nd mc @ 9 weeks March 09, DS2 born @ 35+3 on 04/01/11 with Intra Uterine Growth Restriction and currently in Special Care Baby Unit.
MUMATRON Age 28 2 dc then 4mc, 3 @9weeks 1@5weeks, tests showed possible free protein s ishoo. dd2 born 06/01/2011, aspirin, claxane and high dose folic acid through pg.
JULEZBOO Age 29 1 mc @ 14 wks, DS1 (8yo) 4 mc @ 5/6 wks, DS2 (3) 2 mc @7 wks... DS3 (14/01/11 @35 wks) Dx with Factor V Leiden and Septate Uterus. Clexane and Aspirin throughout pregnancy and progesterone with DS3.

Will do a catch up post now...

MummyA thank you for posting this. Very intersting! I have just been told to take this having had no clotting problem found, I am also having spotting and have been since my last AF which is when I started taking the Asprin, my GP thinks it may be due to the Asprin so I've stopped taking it to see if it makes a difference (Just another thing to up the anxiety). Didn't know Asprin could make this happen.

luckyfor2 just had 2 more people tell me the same thing - new advice is NOT to take aspirin unless clotting tests come up positive. I still cant find any evidence yet for that 60% number. The two other ladies also were told this by Raj Raj and have said they were quoted a 20% increase in rate of mc for women who took aspirin who did not have clotting problem. I took one pill this morning after reading about lots of ladies who were told it "cant hurt" and that IVF clinics routinely gave it to everyone. Obviously I dont intend to take any more now I've heard this and I've since been told that many IVF clinics have changed this policy in light of this study.

and at least I will save a bit of cash now!

That is very interesting thanks MummyA I've also been told by RMC that if they don't find any cause they will prescribe baby aspirin anyway. What a minefield :( I think you're right to stop taking it.

Clare and Luckyfor2 I have just PM'd you the content of two emails I got which had the most information. If anyone else is interested in reading them let me know.

:( I was quite optimistic about the aspirin. What if women have a clotting problem that hasn't even been identified yet? Well that's depressed me for sure. :(

sorry Milky

the study is here

Thanks for those links MummyAbroad . We are used to being confused, I suppose! I'm not a scientist so struggled with some of the study, but it did seem to say that there was not a significant difference in live birth rates - so although aspirin may not be the help we hoped for it didn't seem to show a dramatic increase in mc either.
It wouldn't so much occur to me that aspirin would help if I had no clottting problem, rather that I may not have had a clotting problem correctly diagnosed. ClaireDeLoon glad your persistence about the appointment seems to be paying off. And sorry about your (smug) pg friend. A friend left me a picture of her new-born in a card at work this week, it was so unexpected when I opened it I started sobbing/shaking. Need to pull myself together!

Thanks mummy, just read the letters written to the authors, and it seems that 40% of these women had had only 2 mc's and that 36% were age 36 or over, and that the mc's in this age group could have been due to chromosomal abnormalities.

Seems the only thing I have on my side is my age, as that study does not show any link between women who had had a previous live birth.

Well I guess the only thing I have left to look forward to in my life is my dd growing up and my grandchildren...I really pray hard that she doesn't ever have to ever go through anything like this in her life..:(:(

Hi everyone - regarding the aspirin thing. I'm confused now. One of the miscarriage consultants I was seeing said that although my bloods had come back normal she was going to prescribe aspirin along with high dose folic acid 5mg as for "some reason and nobody really knows why, aspirin seems to help prevent miscarriages". What the heck? Why does information change all the time?

I now have the dreaded 2ww ahead and am taking the steroids until I get the BFN or fingers crossed BFP. Just dare not get my hopes up but you can't help it can you? At least first response pregnancy tests are buy one get one free at Boots at the moment. Time to stock up I think!

Have now PM's the original email to even more of you. Must admit I am still confused as to where the 20% stat comes from having read that study. Did I miss something? Unless there is another study we dont know about?

Sorry if I have stirred up a hornets nest here, but I for one am going to leave the aspirin alone, even if a doctor recommends it to me in the "it cant hurt" fashion.

PS matsmamma I think you can never go wrong with a pack of 25 tests from Amazon for a fiver!

One thing to keep in mind re: the study. It has not been replicated yet. In order to be verified, it needs to be replicated and for those results to be very similar. Also, if you look at the percentages, there is only a small difference between the groups, not a huge one. It's definitely something to keep in mind though, and I am sure there are scientists out there already trying to replicate the findings.

Hi everyone,

milky I too hope my DD never has to go through anything like this. PCOS can be hereditary, and also passed over if you have a high sugar diet during pregnancy, I really hope she doesn't.

I jokingly said to DH at hospital today that my whole medical file has been filled from the same corridor of rooms. ALL gynea probs, apart from a broken toe aged 10. That's really sad for me. My file is nearly 3 inches thick.

Any how, scan was perfect baby measuring well, strong hb, 9+3 (1 day ahead) Rescan in two weeks. Have declined nuchal. I will have to have the GTT at 28 weeks (if i get there) due to the PCOS and also anti-ds as I am A-, but I knew that bit anyway. No ketones in my urine, so have rehydrated and fed myself up well :)

I feel for those of you struggling with the conflicting evidence over the aspirin. I have no advice, but I hope the professionals can soon come up with some definitive answers for you all.

coconuts sounds like you are doing well all things considering. Lovely news that the scan went well

Ok ladies, I have found another study that says aspirin doesnt work, but again cant see anything that says that it actually causes harm. Still perplexed as to why Raj Raj thinks that it increases miscarriage rate by 20%. If anyone finds out, please let me know!

www.medscape.org/viewarticle/722375

These are interesting studies, especially in that they're looking at women who don't appear to have any clotting issues, but have been unlucky enough to have 2 MCs.

The pregnancy losses described for women in subsequent pgs seems to be running at between 20-35%, which doesn't seem to be far off from the normal rate of 1 in 4, or 1 in 5 (20-25%) of pgs failing.

I suppose it's the 'it won't hurt and it may do some good' treatment that they're looking at. I don't think you could say that the treatment is definitely increasing the level of loss to higher than a normal rate, but neither does it look like it's lowering it to less than normal background rate either.

I think the concern is for some of the women here, that maybe they DO have a clotting factor that has been missed - I suppose in which case the thing would be to try to pursue better testing. St Mary's in London is thought of as having very good clotting factor testing facilities as that's been their emphasis traditionally.

Hi everyone - Thanks for the emails mummy - I don't know whether to discuss this with my doctor, or to just go through with taking the aspirin anyway. I know a few women from other forums who had taken aspirin and had healthy babies, even though they had no clotting issues.

So happy the scan went well coconuts!

AF has arrived today I think - well I am pretty sure it is, as I had ovulation symptoms 2 weeks ago. This has made me feel better - although already having heart palpitations thinking about the next pregnancy.
I am so bloody scared. I remember when we tried the first time after my DD - I was so happy, then I had my first mc...I'll never get that happiness back again, ever. Just feel like I will never be happy ever again - I don't really have anything to look forward to in my life - everything is just crap.

Sorry everyone - just feeling sorry for myself - must be hormones - feels good to write it down though..sorry again.

Glad to hear scan went well coconuts

Have only skim read posts as about to go into mtg, but I am taking low dose aspirin after 3mcs and no clotting issues diagnosed. I'm only 7+5, but I'm officially further along than I have been in my three previous pgs. I double checked with the epu last Friday that I'm still ok to keep taking aspirin and they said yes. So I'm going to keep taking it - as it's working so far.

mummyabroad thanks for that info. I am now awaiting 25 pregnancy tests to be delivered courtesy of Amazon! That should keep me going for a while. Thanks x

As for the aspirin guys - I think I am going to stick with it for the time being. My reason being that I had 2 miscarriages when I wasn't taking it and aspirin does seem to have a lot of benefits in quite a few areas of medicine ("they" seem to find new benefits for taking aspirin on a regular basis every few months.

milkyway I'm sorry you are feeling so bad at the moment. Think we all know what those "black days" feel like. After my last miscarriage (my sister was pregnant at the same time and now has a beautiful baby girl and we were due within 3 months of each other) I just couldn't seem me ever trying again or getting out of that black cloud. I still have off days especially when AF is due - everything always seems 100 times worse at that time of the month. Last year was so SHIT for me in a lot of ways - but remember most things in life worth having often don't come easily and you will get there xx

ps milky no need to apologise for letting off steam on here. Thats why these forums are so great

Glad your scan went well coconuts :)

OMG Mamap :( I am undiagnosed and took aspirin and my pregnancy failed :(

Hairy and Digi and everyone really. Sorry if this info is freaking you out. I think LadyB's summary is very good, that pushing for a tests for clotting factors is probably the best way forward.

Is anyone else on this thread likely to meet Raj Raj at an upcoming appointment? Perhaps someone can ask him about the 20% statistic? I really cant see any evidence for this anywhere and its bugging me (can you tell?)

mattsmama hope the retail therapy has cheered you up a bit I second what Clare says, we dont mind you getting things off your chest at all. xxx

Coconuts glad the scan went well.

MummyA I would also love to know where the 20% comes from. I have an appointment at the rmc in leeds on Monday and will ask her about the study and get her opinion. Hope you're feeling okay (or really sick would also be good!)

As you know my consultant told me to take aspirin which I did from the day after I saw him, him saying that it can't do any harm and its proven to help women with mcs. I stopped taking it on Tuesday as I had been spotting since after AF (totally freaking me out and thinking my body was going to be doomed forever - as you do). The spotting has stopped now so its quiet clear that the aspirin was making me bleed. Not sure whether I would want to risk that in pg (if it ever happens)!

milky sorry you feel so sad. Its hard to get through life in the situation that we're all in and some days are definitely harder than others. Day of AF and certain dates etc. Hope you feel abit better soon.

Hello to pureequeen sorry for all your losses, hope the results come back clear.

Hi to everyone else

hi everyone. Don't ever apologise for feeling bad milky. i am almost at the stage where I am cutting myself of from my friends (all pregnant with second child or have just had second child) and avoiding having lunch with anyone at work as I feel like I am so full of bad news and just a general downer on everyone. Someone was bemoaning having a flat buggy tyre on facebook the other day and how awful life was. It took all my self control not to post something I would regret!

I am so so confused about aspirin. I will be sure to ask at my first proper RMC appt in 6 weeks (if anyone can wait that long for more answers). My private doc who did the ERPCs recommends it and he said he got his advice from St Mary's; he is a obs/gynae not a m/c specialist so I am a little bit wary of taking everything he says as gospel. He too was trumpeting the "just bad luck line" until my abnormal chromosome result last month.

Sending hugs for purequeen and milky it's all so crap, nobody should have to go through all this :(

milkyway "just feel like I will never be happy ever again - I don't really have anything to look forward to in my life - everything is just crap." I have said exactly the same thing. After the 2nd MC I had last year. I've heard other ladies on the MC threads say the same thing 'nothing to look forward to'. I think it might be stage of grief or even mild depression? I'm not saying you're not feeling this way, it's just I was struck by the exact phrase I knew I'd used. The feeling did pass with time.
I hope time eases it for you too.