Week 4 - Jan 22 Low Carb Bootcamp

[BIWI]

Evening/all morning all

As ever here's the link to the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness

Please be aware that this week, like week 3, is likely to see little or no weight loss.

Just KOKO! If it's worked for you in the first two weeks, then it will keep on working for you from here on in.

It's about transitioning from carb burning to fat burning.

and good luck to us all from next week!

And whilst I'm here I thought I'd share this recipe which I made on Sunday. It was really easy to make, looked very impressive and tasted great. I swapped the onion for shallots and left out the dates. I included a small apple but reckon that was acceptable given the pork served 6 of us.

www.maryberry.co.uk/recipes/main-courses/roast-fillets-of-pork-with-prune-and-apple

Thanks all for your lovely comments

It's not uncommon, sadly, for people to kick off on threads about low carbing. Somehow it seems to rile people much more than threads about low fat eating or calorie counting! And what started off as a fairly typical 'let's have a go at low carbing and all you evangelical low carbers' was swiftly escalated by one poster into a tirade of insults about me, the way I posted, and that I was bullying the OP of the thread. And then they came over to this thread to warn all of you about my personality .

I suspect (although have no evidence or confirmation from MNHQ - after all TSSNCOP) it may have been the same poster who kicked off on the last Bootcamp - NoAvocado I think she was called.

Anyway, MNHQ were swift to delete most of the posts, and I think that user has been shown the door - temporarily at least! - so normal service is resumed.

Back in the day, I used quite frequently to post on threads about low carbing where I was pretty much a lone voice. What was interesting on this latest thread was how many people - who aren't Bootcampers as far as I'm aware - also came on to put the case for a low carb WOE.

Thanks to those Bootcampers who also gave their support on that thread.

I know it's only 'words on a screen' but it can still be quite alarming when someone starts following you around the site!

The thread jump was extraordinary @BIWI. I confess I snuck back to find said posts on previous threads and think you're right. Just about the oddest thing to get het-up about!!!

Just to pick up on a few things from yesterday:

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal no worries about the poking

@AThroneOfLies Kikkoman soy sauce is only 3.2g carbs per 100ml, so perfectly allowable!

@DollyDingleberry what an amazing family you have. That was a really lovely thing for them to have done.

@SpottyBumPony that's amazing! Really good going . (And I'm very sorry to hear about DDog - well done for not diving into the biscuits though)

@2022sucksalready no idea about spreadsheet woes, but hopefully @ouchmyfeet will see your post and will come to the rescue

@UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea

Honestly at this stage I would pay good money for @BIWI to follow me round barking "Put. The. Carbs. Down." at me

That really made me laugh!

I spent an hour logging my food from the end of last week and I know that LCBC isn't about counting calories but OMG I blew the budget so no wonder I am where I am. Strangely I feel better knowing

But what about the carbs? And how many calories?

Would it be helpful to list out the last few days' menus, so we can see if there's anything we can tweak for you?

@ZiggZagg love the idea of a ringtone

@ShangPie I need to do a bit more research, but it looks like the info on the spreadsheet is wrong, I'm afraid . According to Sainsbury's website, all varieties of melon are 6.8g carbs per 100g. OK if you don't go mad, as that would put it in the amber zone, but not in the green zone, as on the spreadsheet. Apologies for that.

Sorry for all those of you who are struggling, and/or not seeing results on the scales. KOKO - remembering water and fat especially - and let's get this week over and done with, and then hopefully things will improve next week.

@ShangPie (and anyone else who is interested) here's some more info about melon. This is taken from the McCanceWiddowsonsCompositionofFoodsIntegratedDataset_2021, which I believe is very accurate. (Usually Sainsbury's nutritional info is very reliable, so not quite sure why the discrepancy here):

Anyway, here is it - grams of carbs in 100g:

4.2 Melon, Canteloupe-type, flesh only
5.5 Melon, flesh only, average
5.6 Melon, Galia, flesh only
7.1 Melon, watermelon, flesh only
6.8 Melon, yellow flesh, flesh only

@missfliss the week 3/4 plateau is caused by water retention due to a temporary increase in anti-diuretic hormone. If you're following the rules then you will still be losing fat but the water retention masks this and can even cause a slight weight increase. It's one reason why it's recommended to take measurements as well as weighing in - it's perfectly possible to lose fat, and therefore inches, without losing weight. As you continue to lose weight you may even notice that your waist and/or hips drop in size a day or two before the loss shows up on the scales. Also, as the byproducts of burning body fat are carbon dioxide and water, you may find that you need pee more the day before the scales move. That's the water being released from fat cells making them, and you, smaller.

Thanks @StuntNun. I always, always forget that explanation for some reason!

So my visualisation of "peeing away the fat" is not far off the mark

Thanks for the melon update @BIWI - helpful and timely as always.

Melon now back on the shopping list. Can’t wait to wrap some prosciutto around it

Also I wonder if a Thai-style chili-salt sprinkled pineapple dish could be adapted for melon.

Finally before BIWI throws me out for all the fruit chat would a few thin slices of orange be ok in a fennel salad? It’s the most delicious thing, so I hope so!

I think you're pushing your luck now, @ShangPie!

Orange flesh is 8.2g per 100g, so go very, very easy.

That said, the thing that concerns me here is about your need for sweet things. Remember, we're trying to break the hold that sweet things have over us.

@biwi Would it be helpful to list out the last few days' menus, so we can see if there's anything we can tweak for you?

It's okay - I know exactly what went wrong. Back on it this week and not letting anything get in my way.

Does anyone use visualisation? e.g. I am going to a party on Saturday and I could dive head first into all of the Prosecco but I know that if I spend time visualising myself drinking 2 glasses and swapping to non-alcoholic stuff it works.

IMVHO and IME once you've had the first two glasses you'll find it very difficult to swap back

Glad you have identified where things went awry, but please don't obsess too much about the calories. There's a good argument for cutting down your portion sizes, given the weight you've reached so far, but it should still be in the proportions of fat/protein/carbs.

@BIWI I hear you, I don't want to be teetotal on Saturday night but have no intention of falling off a cliff. I did dry January so my tolerance is low!

Quick question which I should know the answer to, in this WOE is there an amount in grams or a % of nutrition that carbs should be on/under? I don't tend to track macros, have just been cutting out some foods as recommended and keeping an eye on snacks and portion sizes.

We generally don't give figures, because people's tolerances for carbs vary greatly. Roughly I'd aim for 70% fat, 20% protein and 10% carbs - although I believe @StuntNun goes even lower than that for carbs.

On a per day basis, to give you some kind of indication - Atkins induction, which is the strictest phase of the diet, is no more than 20g carbs. This is the same as a strict keto diet.

Dr John Briffa (who wrote, among other books, 'Escape the Diet Trap') says no more than 100g per day/30g per meal. Personally I think that's pretty high, and is probably more for maintenance.

So I'd aim for somewhere between the two.

That said if you follow Bootcamp rules then you really don't need to weigh/count. It's the whole point of Bootcamp, as I am a lazy arse who can't be faffed with all of that

Down 1 pound on what would be week 5 for me. I'm happy with that.

I did dry January and still have not had alcohol -- so that is danger area for me this coming weekend.

I did buy the keto recipe book on amazon. I have been enjoying trying new recipes.

Tried this one over the weekend www.fatsoflife.co.uk/coconut-milk-poached-salmon/ Very delicious.

That recipe sounds lovely @mirpuppet

I also noticed, from her website, that she's publishing a book of budget recipes which, given the chat this Bootcamp about economy recipes, sounds like it's worth a go.

@UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea it's actually really difficult to calculate your macros because your own body fat that you're burning counts towards your fat macro! So if you're losing a pound a week and therefore in about a 500-calorie per day deficit then your food intake fat macro might only be about 55% but your own body fat takes it up to 70%. If you're looking for actual figures then your carb intake should be 5-10% which equates to 15-35g carbohydrate per day. However, as BIWI says, we all have a different carb tolerance. Some need to stay below 20g, others can manage 50g per day and men can often go even higher and still lose weight.

One of the main pluses of Bootcamp though is that we don't need to measure, weigh, or count. Just follow the rules and it happens all by itself! If you do want to track macros (which can be useful if weight loss unexpectedly stalls for a long period) then they are 5-10% carbs, 20-25% protein (or higher if you wish, for example if you're building muscle,) and up to 70% fat. When you get to within half a stone of your ideal weight then it can be necessary to slightly increase your fat intake to keep losing weight, however we're talking about the equivalent of an extra tablespoon of olive oil per day.

Thanks again @BIWI, I don't obsessively log. My overall calorie allowance is pretty small (I'm short, sedentary and middle aged ) so I have to be super careful with portions and snacks if I want to lose weight. Low carbing really helps as I can be full up without going overboard on calories.

Thanks @StuntNun, I think I need to up my fat a bit.

I haven't tried visualisation like that @UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea but I might try it now! I do use it on, say, a meal out when there's lovely food that isn't low carb. I'll think about the losses I've had so far and how much better I'll help sticking with this woe and seeing the numbers go down on the scale.

Well done for everyone who's keeping going despite the many challenges being faced.

I had a glass and a half of wine over the weekend and was quite proud of myself for resisting crisps and snacks at a couple of social events - crisps are my real weakness but I held back completely, helped by imagining the big stick, how sad I'd feel if I wasted my hard work so far and taking my own food (hard boiled eggs, cheese, some veg) in case nothing was suitable for me.

@Tellmeagain you're supposed to close your eyes and actually visualise yourself doing the things that you know you should do/want to do. Like watching yourself in a movie. So I would imagine myself arriving at my friend's house, being offered a glass of Prosecco, saying I'll have one later, I'm going to have a sparkling water to start etc. etc.

I think it works with practice.

Sounds good!

Thanks @BIWI for the gentle poke of the Big Stick

I am certainly less obsessed with fruit / sweet things IRL than my posts may suggest. My DS had a tangerine last night and the smell was so good… plus I have some fennel in the fridge to eat up, hence my question.

Cutting out fruit is the part of BC I find the hardest, and I miss the zing and crunch more than the sweetness. I am very careful about eating it on BCL, honest!

@TheCurrywurstPrion - you’ve had a tough time. You’re very brave to move countries away from family/friends at such a time - especially somewhere with such a challenging environment. Hopefully it will be a time that you can look back on with a different perspective - for now hang on in there. Keep LCing & post here for motivation/inspiration. There are lots of discretions and we all need help to keep on track/get back on the wagon.

@SpottyBumPony - sorry about your DDog. Well done for swerving the carbs.

@BIWI - sorry you’ve been targeted by an anti LCer. Totally unnecessary & unpleasant. Glad MNHQ we’re on it. Thanks so much to you & Stuntnun & others - so much support, energy & expertise on here.
I did chuckle at the Biwi ringtone. pasty pinching images….

@prettybird- So my visualisation of "peeing away the fat" is not far off the mark.

I do this ! 😂 Sometimes it’s the only way I can motivate myself with all the water- in my mind it dilutes it!

On track yesterday & today. Super chuffed that I have drunk 2/3 of the water by lunch both days. As well as ‘diluting the fat’ I feel cleansed. Also I don’t have to chug it down & dread the nighttime loo visits which is better but not if you drink 3 pints at 7:30 to catch up!

I haven’t weighted yet this week but I feel better in myself/clothes and that’s what I like about this WOE- how much better my body feels, as well as the weightless/NSVs.

I don't religiously count or track macros (or calories) but I do occasionally count up a meal or a day just for interest and to help me recalibrate my thinking a bit if necessary. My dinner last night is one old have felt was virtually no-carb - it had only above-ground veg and no pasta/potatoes/rice/sugar or grains. It was still just over 20g carbs. It's amazing how quickly they add up, even in the absence of obvious sources.

The scales this morning had finally dropped, albeit by only 1/2 lb but I've been trotting back and forth to the bathroom all morning so I'm hoping I'm getting off the plateau!

Thanks to @BIWI for keeping us all on track, and keeping her cool with the troll.