Week 8 - Pre-summer Low Carb Bootcamp

[BIWI]

Morning all!

The Spreadsheet of Fabulousness is here

Looks, at last, as if we have a bit of sunshine - at least Darn Sarf.

A bit of a less fraught week for me, so it may even be possible that I hit the gym mid-week, which I haven't done for months.

I'm avoiding the scales this Bootcamp, but tried on a couple of dresses I bought a few weeks ago, which were a little on the tight side. One of them fits perfectly now, and the other one is almost there, so I know things are working. But I know that I've a way to go before I'm 'there'!

Hope those of you who are weighing have a good result today!

Here's to another successful week.

I'm really sorry, Nigella, but I have no clue! I know that some drugs do make it very hard to lose weight (and others actively result in weight gain), but not sure which.

Have you discussed it with her GP?

It's obviously more important that she takes her anti-psychotics, but I totally understand that weight gain might not help her feel any better.

Hi Nigella, I'm a psychiatrist and paediatrician (have done both specialisms). Depending on her specific symptomatology and disorder/s, it may be possible to use a newer, atypical antipsychotic that causes less weight gain. I'm sure this is something that her psychiatrist will take Ito account. Sometimes unforgiving get treatment options are limited because of variation in individual response, but bring it to the awareness of her psychiatrist anyway, so they can do a medication review. It's not just weight gain that is the problem, but metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance, which are very real problems. As I'm sure you are well aware, please don't stop antipsychotics without professional guidance.

There is a lack of scientific research in this area, but it is reasonable to conclude that a LFHC diet may work well for controlling appetite in this group, since the main mechanism for weight gain is uncontrolled hunger. It is recognised that low calorie diets are more difficult to follow in this group because they don't control hunger; a LCHF controlled calorie diet should provide enough satiety.

More info: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586399/pdf/11920_2012_Article_347.pdf

hi everyone! Can I join? I did the low carb bootcamp before i got pregnant and had great success so I'd like to do it again. The baby is now 6 months old and weaning so I think I can give this a go without much adverse affect on her.

Going to go food shopping this weekend and get started on Monday! Anyone else doing this while breastfeeding?

betty sausage!
IndianaJone you might not have IR with you PCOS - ask your Drs to check but moderate, not excessive protein is IMO important when you do. I can quite happily eat a huge amount of protein if I don't get enough fat and I stop losing weight, get out of ketosis because my body makes the excess protein into glucose more easily than in non
PCOS people. Phinney/volek say in the 'art and science' to multiply ideal body weight in pounds by 0.6 and 1.0 to get the minimum and maximum amount of protein in grams you should eat each day to maintain ketosis and spare muscle.
doctor thanks for sharing your expertise
babs hello, welcome. No BF advice.

Welcome (back) Babs! And congratulations

... usually people do Bootcamp Light when they're breastfeeding - StuntNun will be able to advise you more, but I seem to remember that she also talked about making sure you have low carb snacks easily to hand, especially for during the night.

And big thanks Doctor for your post.

DoctoraNova thank you so much for your post and the link!

DD had a psychiatric appointment on Tuesday, and has been changed from Olanzapine (the culprit) to Quetiapine aka Seroquel (which the psych said will not affect weight because he's prescribed a very low dose). This appears to be borne out by information in the link you kindly shared. Makes me wonder why he didn't prescribe the Quetiapine in the first place, but he must have his reasons. Your link also tells me that Quetiapine doesn't affect the metabolism which is brilliant.

She was on a fairly small dose of Olanzapine for about one year - I hope that year hasn't had such a bad affect on her metabolism that it will be hard to reverse. Time will tell I suppose.

Sorry for highjack but it is LC-related! She reckons she's lost weight already so that can only be good..... fingers crossed.

Could someone link me to / point me in the direction of the documents? Last time I did it there were some Google pages i think and I saved them to my phone to access quickly. I recently deleted them though annoyingly. Or failing that just a summary of the boot camp light? Thanks

Babs, they are linked in the first post of this thread :)

He usually buys sliced chicken breast and salad for lunch, I'll tell him to look for higher fat meats and add dressing.

Oops thanks Sestra

Nigella I wish her luck, I did have problems with an SSRI (amitriptaline) which messed with my insulin resistance and made it much worse for a time but going low carb sorted it out after a frustrating healing period. X

Anyone else still missing sweet things? Or is it just me!!! Just watching DH tuck into the rather nice biscuits I got him for Father's Day, I miss sugar!

Day 4 of dairy-free LCHF and it's not been as hard as I thought it would be but I do miss the cream & vanilla that was my occasional 'almost sweet' treat.

Any tips?

Hi Babs, I started LCHF whilst BF. DS was 11 months at the time so I was just feeding morning, bed time and sometimes a snack in the day. Diet had no adverse effect on me or him - I tried to wean him when he was 12 months as I was going back to work (I travel a lot for work). He carried on BF for another month (on the days / nights when I was home) and weaned himself at around 13 months.
LCHF had no impact on supply, how I felt or how often he fed. No experience of LC plus BF milk only / younger baby though.
The advice I always had was that diet didn't affect BF and the most important thing was to guzzle lots of water - a handy habit to have picked up prior to starting boot camp!

Hi everyone (and hello to new people)

Just wanted to say I've been doing ok, still following everything relatively well and slowly losing weight.

However I have been feeling very intense tiredness all of this past week. Really quite extreme. I wonder whether there's anything to do with LC?

Doctora thank you for posting that link, makes for interesting reading.

Nigella I've been on quetiapine since the birth of my oldest, DS (5) when my previously well managed bi-polar disorder went a bit haywire with all the lack of sleep and hormones/baby blues that newborns bring. It is so frustrating to be on medication that can increase appetite and it is doubly hard to lose weight when the drugs work against you and your illness can mean you might not be motivated and might struggle to stick with a diet.

My experience (and of course this is only anecdotal...) is that LCHF works really well as it can make me feel properly full which I never was on low cal low fat diets. It hasn't changed the effects of the quetiapine for me which still works well (although I'd like to come off it at some point...)

I hope your daughter gets on with the new prescription and the weight loss

Thank you Gcal and Neko

Medication - dontcha just love it!!

So helpful to read your experiences...

Babs I went low carb at 7 months with DS3 and didn't have any issues with supply. As BIWI says you might need some snacks at night while you're adapting to eating low carb. You often have a slightly higher carb tolerance while breastfeeding so going straight on to Bootcamp Light is fine. I always say to make sure you are taking a supplement to be sure that you are getting all the micronutrients you need. I alternate a multivitamin and fish oil every other day and take calcium and vitamin D every day. Pregnacare Breastfeeding is a good option but can be pricey.

Babs good luck with doing LC while breastfeeding. I'm sure it will be fine, just make sure you do BC light (include nuts / berries to make it slightly easier). To be honest, I wish I had done the same when I had had my DS: I had allowed myself to completely eat what I want after giving birth, which makes you feel even worse than you already feel with the sleep deprivation etc.

I'm another one feeling shattered. Am convinced it is related to the LCing. Hoping it will settle down eventually. Did a gym session a couple of days ago and felt far weaker than I used to. Everything else v. good. Clothes loser, not having cravings etc.

You should be OK by now, Notdead, 8 weeks in. What are you eating? Are you eating plenty of fat? Are you keeping your electrolytes up - by which I mean are you making sure you're getting sodium, magnesium and potassium? So salt in/on your food, and foods like salmon, avocado, spinach and natural full fat yoghurt.

And are you eating enough?

I'm not quite 8 weeks in. Think coming up for 6 weeks, but agree still a good amount of time so a bit weird. Think I'm eating plenty of fat. Make sure I add it to every meal, but wonder if I should eat more. So, for, instance, if I have a salad with egg or chicken or whatever, I add about 1 very heaped tablespoon of mayo. Also eating quite a bit of cheese which is fatty. I am taking supplements, but multivit sort and I think I saw somewhere you saying that they often don't have enough of some of the key electrolytes. I tend to get overwhelmed by the choice of vitamins and supplements which is why I just went for the Well Woman pack. I always add some salt to my food.

And think I am eating enough. Today is a typical day:

B: 2 eggs fried in butter. 2 coffees with double cream
L (will be): Salad (cucumber, lettuce, raw mushrooms, half an avocado) with chicken and Delouis mayo.
D (will be): cauli/celeriac mash made with creme fraiche and butter - with brussel sprouts and beef burger.
If I get hungry will snack on baby bels.

How does that look to you?

I used to have FAR more carbs. So my protein/carb/fat ratio has changed beyond belief. Keep wondering whether my body is still in shock and struggling to draw on the fat for big energy pushes (like intense exercise).

The food looks fine - definitely think about better quality supplements though.

Have you stuck to it during your 6 weeks? i.e. have you given your body time to adapt properly?

Just KOKO - with the electrolytes issue taken care of - make sure you're eating plenty of fat and you should be fine.

There's a really good book that's worth a read called "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance", written about how low carbing helps elite athletes.

I'd love to read that BIWI, sounds very interesting. Sometimes when doing an intense (for me) workout and I need to push myself that bit more, I find I hit a psychological wall. Not sure if it's life (6mo baby), or if it's the diet.

Nigella and others living with mental illness and medication, I fully empathise with you. It's not easy. Unfortunately there is no medial intervention not medication that is free from side effects, and some of the side effects from antipsychotics can be pretty brutal. It should a very individualized treatment plan taking into account individual responses/needs/expectations, keeping in mind the underlying symptoms.

There is no reason to expect that medication-induced metabolic syndrome is irreversible, however it will take a concerted effort to control it. That may include further medication, which I understand is a bitter pill to swallow, but diet has a large role also and that's something that you can control, with the right information and support.

I always strongly recommend specific peer support, the power of which has until recently been gravely underestimate. So, ask your team about support groups, or look online (although I would be cautious of a teen, with mental illness seeking support online). You're certainly not alone in this struggle and others will have gone before you who have found some workable solutions.

Now. I went out for a work party last night the food was ok, but I and a few glasses of wine and then a mojito . Am a bit annoyed with myself, but I suppose it could have been much worse, and it's actually really rare that I do drink. What annoys me most is that drinking is such a large part of the working culture. Anyways, what do you all do to get back into ketosis asap? Have I fucked everything up now? Am I going to have carb flu again for two weeks or is it easier to get back into it after a small "celebratory meal"? Anyone care to share their experience? I had an idea that this was going to happen so am continuing with uber boot camp for another three days. Am loving it to be honest! Am LOVING the tuna. There must be something in it! Got 12 cans on special the other day, don't think I'll ever get sick of tuna.

I didn't realize that uber was dairy free so am making a huge effort to be dairy free this week. Although butter presumably doesn't come into that, right?

Also, pesto? Yay or nay? I made some the other day with the kids. Would be fab on my tuna.

Ok, that's it for now, KOKO everyone. We'll get there.