can my friend's ex husband legally contest her decision to move 300 miles away to be near her family?

[troubledfriend]

Very dear friend , 2 primary school kids separated from husband 2 y ago.

In separation agreement kids live with her. Their dad is half an hour away and sees thm loads. They are reasonably cordial and flexible about it all.

he did initially want residency but she would not let him and .

She is v unhappy and wants to move 300 miles away to be near her family.She is currently in Scotland and wants to move to England

She is dreading telling him.

Could the courts stop her?

Would he have any chance of getting residency if he pursued it through the courts?

Expat has said it very well, I think. She also pointed out the fact that the GF of the Dad seems to provide a loving and stable home for the dc. Why assume she is a wicked step-mum? It's a sign of a strong bond that she supports the father in caring for the dc and if they love her back, then what's wrong with that situation?

Leslaki, I think you're reading things into the OP's post. It doesn't say that the father has been nasty to the Mum or been abusive in any way. Your posts are all about you and your situation and obviously very tarred by personal experiences. You also sound very bitter and like the first wife all step mums dread because you'd rather see your kids have no relationship with their Dad if it meant there might also be a girlfriend who would love and be loved by your kids. I see why you were hurt and it's sad your ex treated you and your dc like this. But the Op's friend is in a different situation to you and the man sounds a formidable father and they seem to have an amicable and flexible relationship. I don't mean to be hard on you, I'm just saying this situation is different from yours.

I think that she should get a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and write the pros and cons of the move. It is often easier when you write it down.
She should think how she would feel if her ex had custody and was going to move 300 miles away-if she would be devastated she shouldn't think of doing it herself.
The main reason to stay put is that the children have a normal day to day relationship with both parents (step parents can love their step children!). She has child care covered, if she had to go into hospital for a week their father could have them.
It sounds as if she is unhappy after the break up anyway. She needs to put effort into a new life which she could do where she is living. I didn't choose to live where we do at the moment but we have to because of work-if I was suddenly free to move I wouldn't because it wouldn't be fair to move the children.
Someone pointed out that it wasn't fair to ask the children, but I dare say that the OP knows that if she were to ask they would rather stay put. My DS's friend is a teenager so it is a bit different but his parents have divorced, his mother has gone 250 miles away back to mother, sister etc and he has chosen to live with father and his new girlfriend and stay at school with his friends.He certainly didn't want to go to a strange city with extended family and start again.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own happiness, or lack of it. It should be perfectly possible for the mother to establish a strong support network in the area she has lived in for so long. If she feels isolated she needs to get involved in the community more, allow herself to develop hobbies and interests that will help her to meet like minded people. While her xh has the dc she should have time to do these things. If she can't be bothered, she probably won't make that effort back in her home town when she does not have her xh to share childcare.

A couple of years ago, she thought that splitting up with her DH would make her happy. Now she thinks that moving 300 miles away will do it. I think she would be better shelving this idea for a while and seeking counselling.

She has to make a new start even if she goes back to her parents. She might as well do it where she is living. She has to accept that she needs to make a new life for herself-the place doesn't really matter.

Judgemental - yes, but we are commenting on a moral dilemma. I don't think it is right for anyone to disregard the effects of their actions on others. Especially their children. We are judgmental about parents who don't use car seats, why not about parents who put their own desire to move closer to family before their children's need for their Dad?

You are spot on upwind. Don't forget that where they live now they are probably near to paternal grandparents too. It's got to be best for the kids to be close to both parents and unfortunately mum has to pull herself together. Noone's died for goodness sake. She should consider herself very lucky to have an exh who wants to be a part of their lives.

To all the people who support her, a question.

If it was dad who was unhappy and wanted to move the children 300 miles away from mum would you support him the same? Because that's EXACTLY the same. Dads (believe it or not) are equal to mums completely and are perfectly capable of loving and caring for their children in the same way.

Just because some of you may not have met one yet, doesn't mean they don't exist.

She should stay put, pull herself together and make a life for herself.

'If it was dad who was unhappy and wanted to move the children 300 miles away from mum would you support him the same? Because that's EXACTLY the same. Dads (believe it or not) are equal to mums completely and are perfectly capable of loving and caring for their children in the same way.'

Just because some of you may not have met one yet, doesn't mean they don't exist.

This is so true. And it sounds like this father really wants to be continually involved in his childrens' day to day lives.

Why is this not just as important as the mother's unhappiness?

Would that not make him terribly unhappy to lose them in such a fashion? Not to mention the kids.

My god, wherever possible, it's so important for children to have parents who love and desire them.

If I were this parent I'd be on the horn to a solicitor 9AM Monday morning.

I doubt he will take this lying down.

I can't say I blame him.

I have three male friends who have each spent vast amounts of time, emotional energy and money in making sure that they have kept in regular contact with their children. While they are divorced from the mothers none of them want to be separated from their kids. Mothers did not want to 'grant' access, and in one case wanted to take the kids several thouusand miles from their dad who wanted joint custody

All three have resulted in very messy legal cases, which has done nothing for the wellbeing of the kids (or the adults but that is another issue)

Yes, it is terrible on the kids, and I'm sure those parents didn't want to go there, they were left with no other choice, sadly.

I would fight till my last breath for my kids, though. No doubt about it.

For them to know, even if to one day look back and think, 'My parent wanted me so badly he/she was willing to do anything to keep me in their life.'

I just remember a line I read from a book, about a girl who grew up in foster care, and then spoke to her mother in prison about her father. The mother told her the dad had wanted to see the girl when she was about 8, but the mother told him to go to hell. And the young woman's sole rejoinder was, 'Didn't you for one minute consider that I might have wanted a father?'

I just don't think some people realise, what a blessing it is, just to have the two who want you.

My BIL's dad committed suicide after being paralysed serving in the VietNam Conflict when he was just 21.

And although he and his sister now understand why their father did what he did, how he was no longer able to farm anymore and felt he was better off dead so his widow and children could have his veteran benefits, the loss of their father at such a young age (he was 3 and his sister 5 when their father died at the age of 23), affected them profoundly.

It really should NEVER be underestimated, what effect removing a child from a loving parent has.

is it irony that the advertisement next to this thread is a number for the 'lone parent hotline?'

I think there is a lot of extrapolating in this thread, as we all bring our own experiences to the table. Personally I think it is the wrong thing to do, but I can understand that the mum may be feeling unhappy and this may seem like the solution. My dh thought that moving to North America would make him happy, and genuinely thought it would work for me and the kids too (he proposed a crazy idea where the children would live with each of us "for a few years" and visit in the holidays). In the end we decided to give our marriage another go, and we have all moved. Seeing how difficult my son has found it (he is 9) with the support of both of us I am very aware that moving schools, let alone countries is very very difficult for children, and if you take one parent out of the equation I think a very tall order. On the other hand dd has made the transition more easily (on the other hand she would be absolutely devastated not to have her dad around).

I think pursuing this will cause a great deal of unhappiness, and probably court battles ahead. But I also think it is likely that the mum will win the legal battles unless the dad can prove that the children spent a significant amount of time with him, and the mum cannot show significant benefits for the childrenin the move.

One of the things that gave DH comfort is that studies have show than losing a parent through death has fewer long term effects on the children (long term on average naturally) than children who's parents have an acrimonious divorce.

I have no family near me within 2 hours drive, but I work hard at keeping in contact with the distant family (dh's and mine) and also maintaining a group of friends who help to support me, and I do the same for them.

It isn't easy, but it is possible

ilovemydog, considering this is a lone parenting discussion board, it's not very ironic!

Oh .

It's that smart/targetted advertisement!

And there I was thinking it was such a coincidence!

you have really made me giggle!

This has really got me thinking - I moved far from my own family and friends to be with my DH and I guess that my responses to this thread suggest that I have lost the freedom to move back if I want to and DH doesn't. As long as we stay married that is not an issue, we will always try to do whatever is best for our family, but it seems that if we split we each sacrifice freedom rather than gaining it...

Both dh and I moved away from family, this must be quite a common thing these days?

I have relied on friends to help support us, rather than family, in the main, and have done this for all of my adult life. I would never have gone home to my family if dh and I had split. Which may well explain why I am happy to stay put now that dh has died, I suppose

I too have always lived far away from my parents and siblings. I consider my immediate family to be the one my dh and i have created together. My parents always put our happiness before their own and when i look back (as a mother myself now) i realise how much my own mother in particular sacrificed for us. My brothers and i adore her (dad passed away) and i shall endeavour to provide the same selfless unconditional love for my children that she did and continues to do for us.

That means always making decisions based on what is best them for them, even if it's not necessarily what you would ideally choose.
You want to concentrate on your own happiness, then get on with it, just make the decision to not have children

upwind that is one of the problems with splitting up - you still have your ex in your life through the kids and you cant just make a decision based on what you want. its not just about moving, stuff like nights you can go out (if you have to time it for when kids are visiting them), when you can book holidays, what school your kids go to etc etc all comes down to will your ex agree to your decision or do you have to go through solicitor/court. chances are if you are together you will say yes to something you are not 100% happy with because you know it will make your partner happy. split up and they no longer have to care about your happiness and stuff that was never an issue before all of a sudden is an issue. its not an easy option and unless things are dangerous or absolutely unbearable i wouldnt recommend it

spot on, missmolly.

my dad would always say, 'if you want an easy life, don't have children'.

it's just not about yourself and your personal happiness anymore.

and if you didn't realise that till it was too late, well, that's really your own lookout, not your childrens'.

the problem with this op is that most people who have responded cant get past the thpought that the mother is wrong to go 300 miles away

i think it is very common not to be near your own parents these days so quite hard to see how important that might be

i cant see how the mother would get more help from her own parents with regard to the children than she is already getting from her exh

so it is a purely emotional shoulder to cry on type of support she wants

couldnt she visit her parents more during the times when her exh has the children

or have a shared residency that meant she had longer periods to spend with her family

tho really she needs to try and learn how to move forward herself

does she work?

back to the original question. Can ex husband legally challenge?

If they have a separation agreement, then this means that it was probably agreed via mediation and also that they aren't divorced?

So, in this case, residency orders aren't in place, so it wouldn't be a matter of challenging it.

It seems to me that if they got this far with mediation, then it could be the answer