can my friend's ex husband legally contest her decision to move 300 miles away to be near her family?

[troubledfriend]

Very dear friend , 2 primary school kids separated from husband 2 y ago.

In separation agreement kids live with her. Their dad is half an hour away and sees thm loads. They are reasonably cordial and flexible about it all.

he did initially want residency but she would not let him and .

She is v unhappy and wants to move 300 miles away to be near her family.She is currently in Scotland and wants to move to England

She is dreading telling him.

Could the courts stop her?

Would he have any chance of getting residency if he pursued it through the courts?

I disagree that most people can empathise. I have found the opposite. People can't. People hear the facts and still judge!

One thing I've learnt is that it's easy to sit up on high and judge what other people have done wrong; throwing words like bitter and raw around.. at anybody with a different, but relevant perspective..

I might have made similar posts to you once upon a time, imagining things to be much more black and white than they ever are in reality.

I am only refering back to my own history endlessly to try and make the point that people shouldn't leap judge "these mothers" so harshly, and with such a smug sense of righteousness, because most people really can't imagine the practical or emotional difficulties faced.

If I were on the jury of the OP's case I would in fact consider that she should have stayed near her x. So you are making wrong assumptions about me and missing my point. But you're not the only one.

I have not lost my sense of justice, but it is more mature now, more compassionate and definitely not "one size fits all".

I understand the barriers between doing things the way you would wish in a perfect World, and doing the best you can with the luck you've been dealt. An awful lot of posters on this board should definitely not be on a jury. They have such a rigidly fixed theory of what the right thing is, but no section in the manual for conditions x,y,z.

But Clockwise there isn't enough information from the OP to know what the situation is in any detail (no x,y or z presented). It sounds as if you had very little choice, and from what you have said your children are happy, and your children's father sadly sounds as if he doesn't really care. Which is very sad. Many posting here are going on their own experiences too, and whilst few of us have such a similar (on the face of it) experience, many of us are bringing what we know about sharing care, or moving children large distances, or supporting fathers who no longer live near their children or who are prevented from being the hands on parents they would like to be to the table. These are all valid here, because we don't know enough about the circumstances. Maybe the mum felt forced into moving to Scotland. Maybe the dad is an awkward cuss. Maybe the mum has a fantastic support network for her and her kids in England. Maybe he would be a better full time parent because she is falling apart. Who knows?

the thing is that the children and their welfare are ALWAYS the most important thing. We can each have our feelings/hurts etc but they are children and going through their formative years.

Wherever possible children should have both parents around them (not necessarily in same house tho) -
the exception should when there has been violence of some kind.

I worry about celebs kids when they live so far apart (Nicole and Tom) from each other post divorce - at least they have loads of money to ferry them back and forth on jets.
And I certainly worry about what goes on in the heads of 'our' kids even now. At the weekend my beloved dsd said 'i'm never going to do this to my children' - it was truly heartfelt.

Clockwise or LadyWhatever, please get some perspective not everything is about you and your experience.

Absolutely Nooka. As there isn't enough info, it saddens me that people are all so quick to judge. That realisation that people are so quick to judge does affect me more than it hurts the average person reading this thread, so it's personal, yes, but that doesn't mean that I have lost all objectivity or sense of justice.

I'll never forget the first time my children's father left after his first visit as a 'visiting Dad' not a family Dad iyswim. I felt the weight of not just my own misery but his misery (and hatred) too. But I had no power to change things. He could change things, he has the money to change things if he wanted to badly enough. Ah well. Over and out on this thread, and time for another name change! As I outed myself very quickly.

LadyRigby or whatever, You are the one with no perspective!! I read your earlier post (the one before your snippy post that is) and your views are straight from the sheltered and monied perfect world manual.

Judging swings both ways

'When you have been a widow of a small boy desperate to have a father, who hero worshipped other DC's fathers you wouldn't throw away a perfectly good one for selfish reasons! '

How can it be said that people like AbbeyA and Martianbishop are sitting on a high horse and judging this selfish git of a 'mother' from there?

Their childrens' fathers are dead and they've shared what that means and their experience as single parents for some perspective.

Xenia is also a single parent through divorce.

I have always believed strongly in fathers' rights. I suspect it's partly because in my divorce I had some of the disadvantages men have in divorce through being a much higher earner but even if it weren't for that I still would always think what if he took them away and how could I do that to him?

Expat, I don't want to go back over old posts to see the names of the people I meant, but It was not AbbeyA or MarianBishop as I'm sure they knew.
AbbeyA's posts were good I remember. Martianbishop is in a different position because her children have definitely lost a good man and a good father. That is not always a given. Still, nobody told her that her judgement was clouded or that she was raw. She was quite rightly entitled to have her own personal perspective.

I'm not judging anyone by the way. I've been the one judged. (bitter and raw I am apparently). Well, I've learnt lessons the hard way, and now I don't judge other people .. Other people judging so harshly is upsetting, because I know they're probably going to turn their critical eye on me. And for all that I've read here I do seem to be offering up the rare (on mumsnet at least) perspective of the single mother with NO money.

I think you will find that there are lots of single mums on mumsnet with very little money. Lots of families with very little money too, oh and plenty with an OK amount of money, and a few with lots.

I think it's really really hard to know whether this woman is being as fair as she can be without knowing the ins and outs of the situation. If her ex works shifts it it may well be difficult for her to work round her husband's shifts. I'm just speaking from the experience of only being able to work because my Mum helps out (and I have a dh- but he can do very little to help me work). If we split I think dh would know that I would need to live near my parents - in part for financial reasons.

Some grandparents can be as hands on as a father. Some more so, some less so. I don't think her moving away automatically means she's being selfish and only thinking of herself. I think we have no way of knowing.

I hope something can be sorted that is as fair as it can be.

I hope to god that the OPs friend is on the receiving end of a Hague Convention order to return the children to their jurisdiction (scotland) and dad makes an application for residence.

If she makes a leave to remove application I hope she loses big time. Unfortunately I know that 20% of LTR applications fail ... I pray to god that this dad is one of those 1 in 5.

I now feel that I cannot move away from where I am because DS's father is here as well. And that's not even my birth country so no family nearby whatsoever. I don't mind though, DS is happy and his father as well. I'm kind of building my new life around DS at the moment.

That's obviously entirely about my situation and not necesseraly relevant..

yer, as I thought, mostly mothers move children without any problems and that's wrong.

If you've made a decision when married to live in place X, bring up a child under Y religion, send it to Z trype of school then I think there's almost a moral obligation to stick to the original deal you both reached and if you can't cope on your own you seek therapy not remove the child 300 miles from its father and if you really have to move you move without your children who stay with the father who loves them.

Zippi your last post stands out as the most accurate and pertinent of all lately

Zippi your last post stands out as the most accurate and pertinent of all lately

I think that Zippi's last post was excellent. Any chance of getting your friend to see that if she feels she needs to be by her parents for emotional support then her children have more need to be by both their parents for emotional support?
I think that it is sad that an adult is going to put her need before her DCs.

That's not comparing like with like though AbbeyA and it's a disingenuous argument. As a child everything is done for you. All the responsibility falls to the adults.

Unfortunately in this case the mother is failing in her responsibility. She seems to forget that she is the adult and running home to parents shouldn't be her option.

Agree Abbey. It's the parent's responsibility to ensure that the emotional welfare of the children is paramount, esp. post divorce. These children are 8 and 10 - old enough to have established their own close friendships and support networks (which also includes BOTH parents). Taking them away from that, and giving them no choice at all over whether or not they move away from all that is familiar and stable is most unfair.

It has just struck me as being a bit ironic that the mother is taking children, who haven't even reached teenage years, away from their father so that she can be near her father.

One of the interesting things about this thread is that very few people see "for the sake of her mental health" as an excuse for suddenly uprooting children and depriving them of regular contact with a loving fater. Including those like me who have had mental health issues. As parents, our DCs well being must come first, and besides, moving far, far away is rarely a quick fix for unhappiness.

She is in fact saying that she can't handle the problem of being a single mum and so she is going home to Mum and Dad who will make it better for her. This is a case where they can't-she takes the problem with her and there is no magic wand.