can my friend's ex husband legally contest her decision to move 300 miles away to be near her family?

[troubledfriend]

Very dear friend , 2 primary school kids separated from husband 2 y ago.

In separation agreement kids live with her. Their dad is half an hour away and sees thm loads. They are reasonably cordial and flexible about it all.

he did initially want residency but she would not let him and .

She is v unhappy and wants to move 300 miles away to be near her family.She is currently in Scotland and wants to move to England

She is dreading telling him.

Could the courts stop her?

Would he have any chance of getting residency if he pursued it through the courts?

I never said she was selfish.

i think she needs to think very carefuly about whether the move would benefit the children, not whether it would benefit her. i dont believe the happy mum happy kids thing either, if she cant cope and dad can then he is likely to get residency should it come to that. if i was faced with this and in the dads situation i would go for residency, if she is forcing him to go to court to keep his kids near then why not go the whole hog (thats only what i would do but you never know).

if he takes it to court they will not give two hoots about the mother, it isnt about her it is about what is best for the kids. option 1 - stay in home envronment where they know people, have friends, nursery/school?, have loving supportive dad, or uproot and move them somewhere unfamiliar to be with parent who openly admits she is struggling to cope.

i really do feel for her but it is true that the court system is not there to support parents, it is only there to do what is best for the kids. she has to remember they are only half hers. i really dont want to sound unsympathetic but thats real life im afraid, she wont keep them because she is female

if this was a man who had residency and he was moving away then posters would be calling him all sorts. saying that children need their mother and how selfish of the father to take them away from her.

I think this woman needs to look at what is best for her children, not what is best for her. When you have children with someone then you are tied to that someone while those children are still dependent. And if that means not moving so as to maintain a relationship between the children and the absent parent then so be it.

If the father is still very hands on and involved in his children's lives then tbh yes I think that to take those children away from what is familliar to them, as well as to essentially change the dinamic of their relationship with their father (and moving 300 miles away it would change the relationship - he couldn't just have them over night/come and see their school productions/have an input into their education etc) is selfish.

If the woman was getting no support from her ex then I could see it, but given he wants them and wants to be in their lives I think she should think hard about it. A lot of fathers do not want to know after a split. She is lucky that her ex still wants to be as big a part of their children's lives.

If he is going through the courts anyway then tbh I would go for residency too - what does he have to lose? At best the courts will put a contact arrangement in place that she will be obliged to stick to even if she's living 300 miles away.

Martian & milkNS say it all very clearly. It's about the kids and their comfort zones, esp. after having lived through their family breaking apart.

By 'mental illness card' I was referring to another poster who thought the mother could use coping issues/anxiety, etc. etc. to validate her move back to her family. This might just make the father to look like the perfect solution and court might give him residency. I feel for the lady, but I think if she would look around there are so many others in her situation, there must be networks she can join and get the help she needs without tearing the kids away from their father, their friends and schoolmates.

Yes, there maybe cheap flights and all that but who bears these extra costs? The mum? Since she considers moving away maybe she should bear that in mind.

agree with wannaBe, if it was a man wanting to move, etc. then he'd be mauled to bits.

Thanks all.
she wanted to move back at the time of the original separation ( Possibly as much as 2 y ago?) but stayed here precicely because the kids are at school and near their dad.

She just feels she can't stand it any more because although she has friends it is not the same as family.

She feels very bad about removing them from school and further from their dad. She has thought it through and this is the path she has chosen.

She really just wants to know now if the courts will allow, and the likeleyhood of him mounting a successful challengs to her plans.

She is seeing a lawyer next week

they are his kids too. enough said.

They can't legally stop her moving as long as she doesn't leave the country-I had to move 300 miles away from my ex for a job and I now have a 600 mile round trip every second weekend so dd can see her dad (because I moved it's my "duty" to get her to him)-it's a flipping nightmare but we had to do it and it's given us a better life, so worth it.

I think in an ideal world she would stay near the father but i can understand why she is moving. We are about to move a six hour drive away from dd father and would have done so even if if did not support the move. We currently live in a town with huge problems and dd life chances will be so much better if we move. My dp will also be at home to dd will benefit from that too.

I think in an ideal world she would stay near the father but i can understand why she is moving. We are about to move a six hour drive away from dd father and would have done so even if if did not support the move. We currently live in a town with huge problems and dd life chances will be so much better if we move. My dp will also be at home to dd will benefit from that too.

good luck to the kids, i hope they come through this ok. im not a solicitor but i have been through court several times with my very awkward ex. i dont think they can stop her moving, but from what my sol told me it sounds like their dad has a very good case for residency

Thanks again all.

I thought , all things considered he would indeed have a good case for residency and he def wants them full time.She has not told him of her plans yet.

he has a new partner ( well after split - he did not want to split) and she would totally support him.

It really is all quite tragic. All parties are lovely people. The repercussions when families break up seem to go on and on.

Does he not stand a good chance of getting residency now?
Op said in her first post that he always wanted residency, but she would not let him. Did he ever investiaget it, start amaking aplications ?
In his favour would be that the children stay in home town, at their old school with a dad who has always been heavily involved in their lives.
Sounds like a decent case, on his part, surely ?

oblomov that was my instinct too.
That is why I posted this query, to see if others thought so too

Firstly scotland and england are two countries in legal terms as the children would be removed from scottish jurisdiction to english (which also covers wales) jurisdiction.

However, there are no residence orders in place at the moment, just an agreement (probably agreed at mediation) for the current arrangements for the children. As there are no residence orders in place, the children no more "live" with mum than with dad. Legally dad is an equal parent to mum in all eyes of the authorities and has an equal right and responsibility for his children's upbringing.

What's the current arrangements for the children - how often do they see dad and when do they stay over at his? And how old are they? Dad living 1/2 an hour away isn't too far compared to 300 miles away! This would be a drastic change of circumstances for the children - they would presumably be removed from school to another school, their education would be disrupted, they would be removed from school friends and presumably paternal extended family, not least the impact on the relationship with their father. Dad would be faced with a 600 mile round journey and understandably a bit miffed at the disruption to the children's routine and the extra travel time and cost incurred.

Dad would be justified in either making an application for residency or at least a prohibitive steps order (or the scottish equivalent) to prevent the children being removed from jurisdiction and the habitual home of the children.

If mum is finding things so hard, is there any way that dad can take more of a share? This would presumably reduce the stresses that she is feeling and also allow her more time for training/education/job etc.

yerblurt you are spot on in your assessment of the situation.

They do have some kind of legal separation in place.The agreement is that the children reside with the mother.I am unsure of the strict details of this.The father pleadeed with the mother to allow him to have the kids, but I don't think he pushed things legally as I believe he was advised he would have little chance.

Currently the dad sees them on a flexible basis more or less when he wants. Probably most weekends, weeks here and there in holidays and even midweek , always staying overnight in the home he now shares with his new partner.. The mum is absolutely fine with this, although it grieves her that he is not pleasant towards her.

She says if she takes the kids 300 miles away she will drive them halfway towards the dad whenever they are visiting for the weekend or holidays.

Maybe you need to repost this, asking "will ex h will get residency", in the title, becasue that is now the issue. Then some people who know the law side ay be able to advise.

You have to admit, that from a purely emotional side, he now looks like he has a decent case.
He can probably prove that he always wanted residency.
He can prove that it would be unsettling to children, after an unsettling parent split.
He could even argue that mum is not coping very well, thus why she wants to move back home.
And just to be devils advocate, I bet you that his new gf is lovely , wants the kids to move in and the kids love her, right ?
But all these things make him look good, don't they.

I think , if I was in court, I might just go for him, and grant him residency.
Sorry.

Did he leave her? I know it makes no difference to the kids, but it would make a difference in how willing someone was to stay somewhere I would think.

it soiunds to me that if he has them weekends and sometimes midweek and sometimes whole weeks it is shar5ed care so i would thin he has a very good case to argue

tbh i think it would be fairer for the kids to stay there rather than be removed from dad

The amount of time that they spend with each parent is crucial. I was told (when dh was wanting to move with the kids to Canada) that courts tend to rule with the status quo on these things. Also how old are the children? What other links do they have with the area (grandparents and other family etc). Is the dad in the catchment are of their school? What do the children want? Most children hate change, and it would be wrenching them apart from half of their family to move such a huge distance. If I was the dad I would be contesting in every way possible. The reasons for their separation would not be relevant to any court decisions about access and residency, it's all about the interests of the children.

Oh I know it would make no difference to the children nooka but it would make a difference as to how reasonable I was willing to be if I was in that situation (only asking for nosiness really).

I have a friend who separated and went to the States. Her ex went as well in order to be near the kids. They had a very amicable break up though and I'm not sure that would work in many cases.

I bet you, ex h could sell it to the kids to stay with him.
Saty with dad.
Stay at school.
Keep all your friends.
keep the place you gre up in.
See mum whenever they wanted.

That sells it to me !!!!

Come on, the guy is onto a winner.
Does your friend think he has no chance, or is the truth that she is really worried that he will win.
Because I think he just might.

Were they still married when they went? Getting into the States is incredibly difficult.

Not sure. Possibly. But they both have jobs there (and have both worked there before).

So she is putting her need to be with her parents/siblings above her children's need to be not just near their father, but part of a life that includes both their parents, their friends, and so on?