Page 5 | Why are men so bitter about paying maintenance?

bidoofisgod · 2024-01-31T18:34:08+00:00

Just that really. Why do they get so resentful about paying for their kids and then expect us to be so grateful for getting their measly money whilst they complain about it? I get £25 a month. And it's thrown in my face every time we speak, and then when I offer to help with childcare over half term as he has to work on days he has the kids (im a TA so will be off anyway) he says no because he doesn't want me using it to demand more money from him, and would rather pay someone else for childcare. How does that make any sense? All the while he's out living his life whilst I'm left with the kids and the dog which he wanted but now "can't have" and I have to shoulder the financial burden off. All the same time whilst saying he doesn't want to divorce and wants us to work it out. Really selling yourself here and making yourself so attractive. Ffs Sorry, rant over

LorlieS · 31/01/2024 23:56

@RMNofTikTok Exactly. I pretty much lost my two young sons to my abusive ex; he said it was my punishment for leaving him. The PA was unreal and incredibly obvious. So why don't the professionals see it?!!!!

cadburyegg · 31/01/2024 23:56

Not always. My DH paid his ex £200 in a lump sum for his son and she went out and bought an Xbox for herself. She even bragged to people that her ex paid for it. You can't blame some men for being resentful at this as it isn't going on the child in some cases.

So who was paying for the child's food, clothes and other expenses during that time? The fairy godmother?

mathanxiety · 31/01/2024 23:59

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 31/01/2024 21:10

Putting forward the perspective of a father (my DH), they have to pay for everything when their child is with them, clothes, food, uniform, school events, travel costs etc and then is expected to spend even more money to help the mum with the same costs when he gets no help.

That's just one perspective from my experience.

You realise that many women suffer a serious hit to their career progression, promotion prospects, and chances of increasing their salaries when they have babies, right?

And that this rarely happens to a man when he has babies?

And that many women start with lower salaries to begin with?

mathanxiety · 01/02/2024 00:01

Holidayhell22 · 31/01/2024 21:49

I think the sad truth is they didn’t really want kids. They went along with the idea to keep the woman quiet. To pacify her so that they could keep getting access to free sex and a cooked meal on the table.
Deep, deep down they now resent that they have to pay for the kids that they never truly wanted.
They resent their ex for having the audacity to leave or expect them to pay towards raising their own child.
In fairness they know they can move on and dupe some other mug of a woman into taking the ex’s place.
They often go on to have yet more kids with the new woman.
They don’t give a crap about these new kids either. The new woman just doesn’t know it yet. She won’t suspect as long as she keeps providing free sex and cooking the meals.

You're describing sociopaths.

RMNofTikTok · 01/02/2024 00:02

LorlieS · 31/01/2024 23:56

@RMNofTikTok Exactly. I pretty much lost my two young sons to my abusive ex; he said it was my punishment for leaving him. The PA was unreal and incredibly obvious. So why don't the professionals see it?!!!!

Because most judges are pale stale males, the group of people most likely to be perps....

determinedtomakethiswork · 01/02/2024 00:04

There is poster on another thread who has been on a date with two different guys who didn't even want to buy a cup of coffee. Can you imagine having a child with one of them and splitting up and expecting anything at all for your child?

Before I came on Mumsnet I just didn't know that there were men who didn't pay towards their own children. Obviously I knew that there were the sort of guys who would be on something like shameless but everyday guys? I'd never heard of it and yet I see it here again and again and again. It's very very depressing.

LorlieS · 01/02/2024 00:04

@RMNofTikTok It was Cafcass I found the most disturbing. The officer was entirely manipulated by my abuser. Dad given majority custody. Boys messed up.

bluedomino · 01/02/2024 00:06

@StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance but she's allowed to buy herself things. She may have been boasting to wind her ex up, people do stupid things. Maybe she had spent all of her savings on the child already.

Society seems to think that the RP has to martyr themselves for their children, going without everything to ensure the children can eat. The woman isnt allowed any form of treat/hobby/enjoyment. Fathers still want to know exactly where each penny has gone and as a mother you do not deserve anything. Its her money that has already been spent on the child. Bringing up a child in poverty is hard and if she scrapes together enough money for a wax, nails, game or tattoo, do you really begrudge her. Whereas I bet your man has spent more than £200 on himself. He probably has a vanity car with a parpy exhaust, a posh watch, expensive phone and numerous other treats which she can't afford for herself. But that's OK as she has to sacrifice herself at the altar of the neglectful father.

But really both you and the child's father know it costs more than £200pm to house, fed, clothe a child. Open your eyes, he will do it to you too.

Deathbyfluffy · 01/02/2024 00:09

CherryPiePiePie · 31/01/2024 20:52

Let’s not pretend it’s just as many women that do it! It’s mostly always men.

Show quote history

If you’re going down that road, let’s also remember that an awful lot of men gladly pay maintenance and have good relationships with their children.

You can’t hate on men without factoring in that an awful lot do the ‘right thing’ - although of course it’s not very MN to accept that

Deathbyfluffy · 01/02/2024 00:10

cadburyegg · 31/01/2024 23:56

Not always. My DH paid his ex £200 in a lump sum for his son and she went out and bought an Xbox for herself. She even bragged to people that her ex paid for it. You can't blame some men for being resentful at this as it isn't going on the child in some cases.

So who was paying for the child's food, clothes and other expenses during that time? The fairy godmother?

Way to spectacularly miss the point (although I don’t think that was an accident)

LorlieS · 01/02/2024 00:12

I do feel it's unfair however when couples separate and some women (but absolutely of course by no means all) seem to feel an ex should fund the.lifestyle they had before the split, but still expecting not to go out and earn a living themselves.

Snugglemonkey · 01/02/2024 00:20

SecondUsername4me · 31/01/2024 21:07

I went on a work night out and a new guy had started recently. He got to chatting and brought up how pissed off he was that "the money he has to give his ex is being used for her to get a tattoo" fucking twat. I called him out on it, in hindsight I probably shouldn't have, not sure whether the others were in agreement or not, but how dare he!

I once had a date with a charmer I met online, who told me he had children, but I wasn't worry as he had nothing to do with them. I was obviously instantly besotted 🙄

bluedomino · 01/02/2024 00:20

@YetMoreNewBeginnings yes, agreed. I provided the CMS with bank statements showing double the income but as it didn't agree with their figures nothing more done.
Maybe it's because it would directly affect so many politicians??? It needs to be reframed as financial abuse of the child.
Also, I think society financially undervalues the woman's role in raising a child. A well rounded person, who will contribute to society.
It's all so wrong. I know there are men out there who are great fathers, I had one myself. But these men achieve sainthood status, whereas women who do the same plus extra and its never enough. I really think we live in the most misogynistic time.

ReadtheReviews · 01/02/2024 00:21

I'd draw up a list of what you spend on the child each month, including a portion of rent and electricity needed for washing machine, oven, water heater etc, food, clothes, clubs, petrol to school and then ask him if he can work out what half of that is.

Disneydatknee88 · 01/02/2024 00:26

CherryPiePiePie · 31/01/2024 20:33

Because they think it’s for you. When I asked my ex for maintenance he said “you don’t have kids to get paid!”

This. My ex assumed I was stockpiling all "his money" to enjoy myself. Yes sir, your £15 a month (or zero, depending on when you were employed or self-employed) funded such personal frivolities. Its not like I had childcare, general utilities and rent or food and clothes to pay for with that money that sometimes or never landed in my bank account.

mathanxiety · 01/02/2024 00:30

bluedomino · 31/01/2024 23:47

I would like to see a system where the NRP has a minimum amount that they ought to pay towards their child, say £250pm (increases with wages) for everyone regardless of whether they are employed or not.

This amount plus any extra is paid to RP every month from a central fund. A bit like the criminal injuries system.
Then the man, sorry NRP, keeps that debt forever and has to pay it off (like a student loan) back to the central fund. That money will remain due even past child's 18th and will be recovered and paid to the NRP so as to recuperate her for the money she has already spent raising the child.

They should have powers of enforcement like in USA, like passport removal. No payment, no passport and certainly no Visa to a country who won't support the UK in the system of a man paying towards raising his children. Sorry again, i mean NRP!

Removal of goods, like cars, boats etc, so self employed men can't get rid of their cash easily.

It should affect their whole life should they decide not to pay. Obviously the ones who can't pay yet can keep the accrued debt until they can.

Even repossessing their houses as that is an asset.

Then prison, without the debt being written off.

There should be a register of fathers who won't pay available on request, (bit like DA) to see if your new man is socially responsible towards his offspring.

There should be punishment via courts for refusal to pay and reported in local papers, to publicly shame them.

Hopefully that way as least the very poorest would have access to the money regularly and without the mother, sorry RP, having to hope and pray the child's father will deign to throw some pennies over this week.

If the public starting seeing this as something that is socially unacceptable then society would start to view it differently. Basically people think it's wrong to drink drive and maim someone, so that required prison, settlements etc. They need to see the deliberate withholding of monies to raise a child as slow drip, long term abuse of that child.

Oh yeah and a man SHOULD NOT pay less for his own child/ren if he's living with some other man's child. Who the hell thought that one up?

In my US state, a parent who is owed child support will have a court order to that effect, and the ultimate remedy is a petition for contempt of court, which can result in the offender being jailed.

In between, the party who is ordered to pay can have his driver's license taken, his paycheque garnished, and can be ordered to prove he is actively looking for work if he pleads unemployment. A judge can stipulate that such a person show evidence of any number of applications the judge wants, and cannorder frequent updates on the job hunt.

The person can be fined too, and can be ordered to pay interest (currently 9%) on back payments ordered. Fines can be taken out of a paycheque. Someone who pleads self employment and next to no income can be ordered to show business accounts/ tax records. Again, the threat of jail time for contempt of court or a separate prosecution for perjury hovers over the offender. If a non paying parent is a member of a licensed profession - lawyer, etc, their license to practice can be jeopardised by such misconduct.

A judge can also place a lien (subject to due process) on real and personal property of someone who owes child support - house, cars, land, etc. A judge can also freeze a bank account and can also divert any tax refunds from the offender.

Prosecutions are handled by the state's attorney/ district attorney (at county level). Leaving the state with the intent to duck court ordered child support payments will result in pursuit by the FBI and federal charges. States will track down offenders using all resources available to them, including PIs.

Losing the driver's license or the threat of losing it often works wonders. Driving without a license can have major legal consequences.

mathanxiety · 01/02/2024 00:35

@bluedomino

It needs to be reframed as financial abuse of the taxpayer.

OzziePopPop · 01/02/2024 00:53

puffylovett · 31/01/2024 22:56

Because in my brothers case, he’s been kicked out and left with absolutely nothing. Nada. Zero. She’s got the house (that was in his name), all the furniture he took in, the car and washing machine my parents paid for. He can’t afford to rent anywhere now, and he has no chance of getting a mortgage. He’s on my dads sofa. He does all the running around collecting his daughter, she does none. He struggles to understand what the cost of keeping his daughter is, when she eats nothing except crisps and chocolate and is at the childminders 8-6 five days per week with paid for meals by the government. So yes, he’s bitter that she’s claiming more than he earns from the government and getting £500 per month from him and her other ex on top, oh and when she does work, it’s all cash in hand.

ive always vehemently backed single mothers to the hilt, my best friend is one and I’ve seen how she struggles, god knows we’ve found it hard enough bringing up our two on 1.5 salaries - but in his case I can genuinely see where the bitterness comes from!

Wow, are childminders free where you are?!? Please tell me where, I’m listing my house for sale tomorrow and having that third kid I’ve always wanted!

CaraMiaMonCher · 01/02/2024 01:09

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Right, but £200 of her money that she would otherwise have spent on an Xbox did get spent on the child in some other way.

You sound like a child who doesn’t understand swapping ten £1 coins for a £10 note still leaves them with the same amount of money.

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 01/02/2024 01:11

@CaraMiaMonCher Knowing what I know about the person in question, I would have to disagree with your statement.

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 01/02/2024 01:15

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bluedomino · 01/02/2024 01:16

@mathanxiety Wow. Just Wow. That's amazing. Do you think people in your state view not supporting your own child as despicable? Is it frowned on? And do you think it helps lift more children out of poverty?
I wonder if these powers have an effect on people's desire to cheat? Whether they see it at another thing to lose? Sorry late night ramblings!
How can US be so far ahead on this but so behind on maternity pay?
Also I think non payment should affect their credit as if they feel no guilt about not providing necessities to live for their flesh and blood, then how can they view a car repayment as more important.
Basically I do think there are a lot more sociopathic, full blown narcassistic personality disordered men filled with hate for women, around than we suspect.
We need more communes.
And domestic abuse awareness in schools.

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 01/02/2024 01:16

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Y0URSELF · 01/02/2024 01:24

Gonnawashmymouthout · 31/01/2024 21:33

Makes me rage. 😡

I work in IT and with lots of contractors. One was boasting how he only takes a small salary from his company to avoid paying the ex too much maintenance.

I remember my friends ex was collecting his son, and had the audacity to look at her calendar to see she had a waxing booked in. Ranting and raving that he was paying to get her Fanny waxed. Aye… that’s all his measly £30 a month paid for anyway

Yes, my ex pays zero child support for his two kids even though he earns £120,000 a year. That’s because he has his own company so he pays £5,000 a month to his girlfriend (who doesn’t work there ) and £5,000 a month into his pension.

bluedomino · 01/02/2024 01:40

@StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance well in that case, your husband (poor you) ought to be glad that she used the money to buy something that his son will no doubt enjoy playing on as well. Imagine if she'd bought a spray tan, nails, hair extentions for her alone or even better the Freedom Programme to educate herself on shitty examples of deadbeat dads!
If an extra gift is given, then people can spend it how they wish. If he wanted his measly £200 spent only on things he approved of then he could have prepared a list of appropriate choices and bought it directly.🙄 That wouldn't be controlling or financially abusive at all!
You don't know for certain that that is what his precious £200 was spend on. Only hearsay, gossip and probably things said to annoy.

But then again your husband (again poor you) has had more than 200 quids worth of moaning and badmouthing the mother of his child out of it. It's really not a good look slagging her off and I bet people who know you both are disgusted and sick of hearing about 200😢 pounds.

Why do some men begrudge their children so much? And then other men bend over backwards to maintain a healthy relationship with their ex, both putting their child first and foremost.

I would love to hear a discussion between the fathers who would do anything and spend their last penny to "raise" their child up in the world and the deadbeat who use their money to abuse.