School won’t stick to agreement

[SpinningFloppa]

I posted this on SN children but no responses it’s a very quiet board and I need some advice as not sure what to do Monday, so trying again here.

I have 4 children 3 in primary, dd oldest just left school in July and is autistic thanks to her primary school she didn’t get a suitable secondary school so I’ve had no choice but to home ed (not my choice but that’s a different thread) anyway due to having 3 still at primary school I’m having to bring dd on the school run, dd is NOT coping with this and I’m having a struggle getting her down there every day, she refuses to come so I have to persuade her each day, she won’t wait outside and is becoming frustrated she also won’t come into the school grounds at all, I spoke to the school in the beginning and we came to an agreement that I would collect my other 3 early so dd doesn’t have to wait and avoids coming in, not super early only by 10 mins ... this was agreed by the senco, anyway the school are not sticking to it, and aren’t bringing them round or letting them come round alone leaving me standing outside the school gates with dd having a melt down.

Yesterday I got to the school early and buzzed on to remind them yet they still didn’t bring them out?! This meant I was stood outside the school gates unable to leave dd but also she wouldn’t come in. What can I do here as I’m at a point where I’m feeling like I can’t bring them to school as I can’t collect them! Any other options here as I’m at a loss, dd is super strong she won’t come in and gets angry if I try to make her, I will add when she was in school I was able to pick them all up early at 3 as dd couldn’t manage the noise and the crowds at pick up and after an incident happened in the play ground we came to this agreement, I’m just trying to avoid another situation happening.

The school will say they cant meet need and the onus is then on the LEA to show that the school can, the school has the information within the EHCP to determine why the needs cant be met, the EHCP then needs to be amended to name a different provision and I asked OP what provisions she has asked SEN to approach, where in the process is that at the moment.

OP doesnt say whether there was an offer of a place at the school which had already been accepted.

And mainstreams can be challenged by the LEA where they are refusing but if the parents wants a mainstream school. The school has to evidence why it says it cant meet need because its not lawful to refuse on the basis of SEN but it can say that it cant meet the needs.

SpinningFloppa

Did you read my post? I suggested you use an after-school child minder. They often collect a lot of children from school (making it not too expensive). You could arrange to collect your childre. From his/her home. This would mean your oldest won't need to go into the play ground.
I would be looking into this strait away.

When I applied I put two sen schools I was told the first was oversubscribed which is why she didn’t get a place and the second “didn’t respond” according to the LA, the second is an independent school not sure if that’s why? the first was not.

I will look into it but I’m not sure I can afford it, I’m not working due to being a full time Carer. She does get dla but I don’t think that would cover the cost.

Just a thought based on my experience. My DD's mainstream school put in provision for her - she had a private space (essentially a walk in cupboard at the back of the office), laptop and a pass that let her leave her mainstream classes if she wanted to to retreat to her private space. The office staff let her keep a mug there and help herself to tea and biscuits. She had set time with staff 1:1 (her teachers not a ta) plus the senco spent time with her each week. Very much personalised to her, we fought for it as the special school provision they offered had no track record of passing GCSEs let alone a levels. She got straight a*'s

Unless a school is wholly independent a school cannot refuse to admit by saying it can’t meet a pupils needs if the school is named in the pupil’s EHCP, as it is in this case. It must admit and can be directed to if they refuse. That applies whether the parent wants mainstream or not.

The LA can name the school regardless of the school’s objections even if the school claim they can’t meet the pupil’s needs. The onus is then on the parents to appeal if they don’t agree. The EHCP isn’t just amended because the school say they can’t meet a child’s needs if the LA don’t agree, which they don’t in this case. The LA don’t have to prove anything at the stage of naming the school, although they would if they went to Tribunal, but even then in the main the OP would need to prove MS is unsuitable or incompatible.

This is an important point. SEN schools are not for for purpose. They arent often academic. They're a holding place for kids seen as "not able" until they're old enough that the LA no longer needs to deal with them.

Putting academically fine kids into SEN schools can ruin their education.

They just arent fit for purpose. We need SEN schools which keep the academic side going properly, for kids like your daughter. But they just arent really a thing.

As I said before, in a post you chose to ignore, some mainstream schools are great at providing what is needed but you have to push. Other schools are awful and basically want you to pull your kid out of the school.

She isnt academically behind so she deserves a chance at good grades. A mainstream school could give her that, if they make adjustments to help her cope. It is possible. But you need to be there and ready to push and come up with ideas and force them through.

You arent even trying. Give it a try.

@SpinningFloppa do you get Carers Allowance on top of the DLA? Make sure you are getting everything you are entitled too.

Its a given in this case isnt it that the parent is on board with the challenge? Im not saying its just down to the school, the OP doesnt want this school is that right?

And yes the EHCP can be changed, Ive challenged enough of them to know this without going to appeal, the school says it cant meet need, the parents name a number of schools that they wish SEN to approach and then wait for responses. OP hasnt said whether she challenged the ECHP

And certainly at the moment there is big rethink on how SEN schools are used. For the exact reasons you set out.

There is an instinct in parents sometimes and I admit professionals who work within this to immediately disregard the idea of mainstream.

What that has led to over the years is a lack of focus or investment (what investment!!) into the provisions that could be available within mainstream to meet the needs of children which means its too easy for the only options to end up being a specialist school.

Yes, it’s a given the OP also doesn’t think the school can meet DC’s needs. But that wasn’t your post.

You posted Ok so the next steps are the mainstream school saying they wont take the child and the LEA then has to look for an alternative

Which isn’t correct. The LA don’t have to look for an alternative just because the MS say they won’t take the child. As they have done, the LA can name the school regardless of the school’s objections unless it is wholly independent. And the school must admit. They don’t get to say they won’t take the child.

I didn’t say the EHCP can’t be changed without appealing, but only when the LA is in agreement it needs amending, which they aren’t in this case. Therefore the OP needs to appeal. The school can’t just say they can’t meet needs and therefore refuse to admit.

OP hasn’t appealed the EHCP. She didn’t appeal within the timescales, then asked for an early review, but hasn’t followed that up and the LA are in breach of the timescales so she doesn’t have the right of appeal currently. She needs to JR to get the right of appeal.

This is an important point. SEN schools are not for for purpose. They arent often academic. They're a holding place for kids seen as "not able" until they're old enough that the LA no longer needs to deal with them.

It’s a sad way to look at it but I agree it’s kind of true. Most SEN schools are for children with very severe SEND who will never function independently as adults. They get enrichment - but their rate of development is what it is, they don’t learn academically or progress. Many are as ‘able’ as they ever will be when they leave primary school.
There definitely need to be SEN schools that are designed to cater for academically able children with SEN.

There are SS who cater for academically able DC, but they aren’t as common and there isn’t enough of them. They usually take a fight to get too.

Ask the school to ask a parent from each class to walk them out - I am sure there are some lovely souls who would understand and help you out. It does not matter if you know them or not you will soon know them.
Do you know somewhere in england there is an all girls government school who only take autistic children?

She won’t ever live independently she requires help all day she needs help with personal care (and required this in school also) showering, personal hygiene, she can’t do anything for herself. She has no danger awareness runs off runs into roads.

Yes I read about that on here, my borough only has 2 special schools and both only take children with SLD so I had to apply out of borough which also went against us.

@SpinningFloppa Have you had any support from Sendiass? You have definitely made the right decision, far too many children are told they will be fine in mainstream and then deeply traumatic for the child if they attend and pressure on the mainstream school to jump through all sorts of hoops to evidence the provision is not suitable. It's just an attempt a cost saving as borough SEND budgets are miniscule. They will go for the cheapest option.

Is there no chance at all for appeal? Lapsed EHCPs can be reinstated. My experience is that the authority will back down if it goes to tribunal.

Did you not have a case worker that sent the EHCP for consultation to suitable provision? It is fairly common for students to go to specialised provisions in other authorities. You would get transport.

OP’s DD still has an EHCP, it doesn’t cease when someone EHE. She just doesn’t have the right of appeal at the moment, she needs to look at Judicial Review to get the LA to comply with their statutory duties post review as they are in breach of the timescales in order to get the right of appeal. I don’t know whether she did, but she was also advised to ask SENDIST if they would allow a late appeal.

The LEA will mostly try and get the mainstream school to do more and more. They will try and buy time and send you round in circles. Its not just stressful, its maddening.
Its clear that OP has achieved a lot already,but has pulled out because quite frankly, its terrifying. Getting an EHCP in the first place is so hard now, that already shows tenacity and work.
I understand this. Ive been there more than once and sadly i am also going through it agajn now.

Op what you have on your side is the fact shes year 7. You already have an EHCP and diagnoses. You have been told that they wouldnt be able to meet her needs but you need to find a way to get this in writing.
I know its so hard and youve got 3 others that need you too, so its just such a lot to take on.

But there will be a number of SEN schools which are independent and local to you, most of our young people with SEN end up going to independent specialist provision because there just are no space at the LA schools, as you say your area only has two maintained by the LEA

You are allowed to ask for any school, SEN must approach them to see if those schools can meet the needs.

Has your child got a disability team SW?

I think youve possibly had bad advice if im understanding correctly. You dont apply for a SEN school like you apply for a mainstream. Its discussed and decided and named on the EHCP the previous year. Its a completely different system.

No wonder you are fed up with it all if they havent helped you do it right

My DC school has no problem with them leaning early, sometimes by a couple of hours, usually for various therapy appointments and I often have to pick them all up as I often can't get back before school ends. Admittedly it's not ever day, probably averages 1-2 times a week, if they don't all turn up at the front office at the pickup time my eldest goes and collects the others from their classes. Sometimes their teachers or they all remember, sometimes no one does and then it's the office staff who go and get them for me. Covid made this harder, I used to be able to go in and collect them from class, but we're still not allowed in school grounds where I am.

But that's different because the school have a duty to your children because they attend the school. The op's daughter is no longer a pupil.