School won’t stick to agreement

[SpinningFloppa]

I posted this on SN children but no responses it’s a very quiet board and I need some advice as not sure what to do Monday, so trying again here.

I have 4 children 3 in primary, dd oldest just left school in July and is autistic thanks to her primary school she didn’t get a suitable secondary school so I’ve had no choice but to home ed (not my choice but that’s a different thread) anyway due to having 3 still at primary school I’m having to bring dd on the school run, dd is NOT coping with this and I’m having a struggle getting her down there every day, she refuses to come so I have to persuade her each day, she won’t wait outside and is becoming frustrated she also won’t come into the school grounds at all, I spoke to the school in the beginning and we came to an agreement that I would collect my other 3 early so dd doesn’t have to wait and avoids coming in, not super early only by 10 mins ... this was agreed by the senco, anyway the school are not sticking to it, and aren’t bringing them round or letting them come round alone leaving me standing outside the school gates with dd having a melt down.

Yesterday I got to the school early and buzzed on to remind them yet they still didn’t bring them out?! This meant I was stood outside the school gates unable to leave dd but also she wouldn’t come in. What can I do here as I’m at a point where I’m feeling like I can’t bring them to school as I can’t collect them! Any other options here as I’m at a loss, dd is super strong she won’t come in and gets angry if I try to make her, I will add when she was in school I was able to pick them all up early at 3 as dd couldn’t manage the noise and the crowds at pick up and after an incident happened in the play ground we came to this agreement, I’m just trying to avoid another situation happening.

I didn’t post she didn’t receive 1:1, I posted it wasn’t officially specified and quantified in her EHCP, so officially she didn’t go from 30 hours 1:1 to nothing.

Of course I don’t know your DD, but you have posted many times previously, including posting photographs of her EHCP. As was explained to you, the EHCP didn’t specific and quantify 30 hours 1:1, it was vague and woolly, which is why you can’t enforce the 30 hours 1:1 at secondary, because it was never officially in the EHCP.

Exactly. One poster asked how they could just remove her 1:1 for high school. Another poster explained that they can because the 1:1 was never official dictated in her EHCP, so is seen as not needed (even thought it is).
You then replied in a strop that how can anyone act like they know you and how can they say she didnt have a 1:1 when she did.

That isnt what she said. No one said that. She was just explaining to another poster why the high school wouldn't provide a 1:1. And you've just confirmed that that's why the high school wont give her one.

So what are you annoyed about? No one said anything untrue about the 1:1 situation. You've just agreed with what was explained.

I don’t know you, but I do know you have posted many threads under multiple names. Your last sentence is exactly what I posted, so I don’t know why you took offence at my pp.

Thank you. I didn’t say she didn’t receive 1:1.

This must be a very tough situation to be in OP and it sounds like you have no support which must make it more difficult.

How is your relationship with the school? Do you feel they are doing their best to facilitate the arrangement but just individual teachers ‘forget’ etc or are the school being difficult?

You could ask for 10 min later pick up so all the children were ready to come out straight away. They could all make there way to the office area to wait collection. This may prompt school into being more proactive in releasing the older two early.

You could try a message to the teachers not releasing early explaining the situation and pleading for them to let the older two out on time. I’ve also found that if the children themselves are proactive at asking ‘Miss can i get ready to go now it’s ten to’ they are usually more responsive. From experience, even if i’ve been told so and so needs to leave at x time, in the chaos of end of day i will forget 99% of the time…

Other option is to arrive late for pick up regularly. You likely won’t want to do this as it may distress your older children but i bet the school would be responsive to an early pick up as a result.

I sincerely hope you get some support for you and your older daughter soon.

Hi there. I know it's costly but is there a child minder who collects from the school? If so maybe you could have them collect the children and then you collect the children from their house? You maybe able to leave your daughter in the car and just ring the door bell and the kids come out. I knew where I live there are several child minder who drop off and collect from the local schools.
I know it's a dreadful thing to say. But do you think it would be worth placing your daughter in a secondary school and letting it play out a bit? You almost need to prove/have evidence they she carnt cope in they situation. Then it may prove to the necessary people that she needs more help .

I’ve been told repeatedly by posters that I’ve “done nothing” when they don’t know me and don’t know what I have and haven’t done, yes I should have appealed to tribunal, I didn’t, that was my mistake and I know that, at the time I was beaten down and felt there was no hope, I was struggling without having any support with it and thought I would stand no hope as even her school didn’t support it despite how high her care needs are so I missed the deadline, yes that was a mistake but the people being rude to me have probably never been in this situation knowing how difficult it is to fight it on your own with zero support, so I missed the deadline.

After that I realised it was a massive mistake so reached out on here to ask what I can do next, I was told to do an emergency annual review which I DID do! This was suppose to open up right to appeal but it hasn’t I haven’t heard from the LA since. At the emergency annual review the sen officer told me the school place will not be changed. Ive been told my only next option is another emergency annual review with a school she will not be going to and the school need to request this. She won’t be going. I’m not debating that no one knows the reasons why she can’t go. She wasn’t coping in her mainstream, she was regularly aggressive, spent 10% of her time outside of her class at her work station, has been on reduced time tables, escaped the school, but none of that matters because she’s not behind academically.

Sorry that should be she was in class 10 % of the time the rest of the time she was at her work station with her 1:1.

Ive been told my only next option is another emergency annual review with a school she will not be going to and the school need to request this.

This isn’t correct. If the LA are in breach of the statutory timescales following the early review you can begin Judicial Review proceedings in order to get the right of appeal.

@SpinningFloppa

But what I mean is she knows the school and was capable of attending there for year's in classrooms and lunchtime with lots of other children albeit being picked up early. Why can't you give her something to encourage her to walk from the car to her siblings classrooms like a fidget toy or iPad and you collect the children from their classrooms with your DD while she PLAYS on iPad or whatever. Or leave her with the head or secretary while you get the other children and then all leave together before the crowds come?

OP, I'm sorry, this sounds so difficult. On the issue you've asked about (school pick-up), I would persistently arrive 5 minutes late and wait outside with your DD. Tell your children to tell their teacher when they're the last ones left that you are waiting outside the gate for them. When the school contacts you to discuss this, I'd tell them that you are outside but can't come in because of DD and so could they send the children out to you. This doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem to solve and this might push the school into working with you to find a solution. The most sensible solution would seem to be for your children to leave last (after all the other children have been collected) and then there might be someone who can walk them to the gate. The other solution would be asking another parent in the class to collect yours as well and walk them to you, but you say you don't have any contact details for other parents?

So she has an EHCP and a mainstream secondary has been named? And that provision has accepted it can meet her needs?

Did she start and then the school said it couldnt meet her needs?

She wasn’t coping I’ve told you that, she is aggressive and attacks people she is refusing to come in are you suggesting I drag her? She won’t come in she lies on the floor, it took 3 members of staff to get her into school in the mornings as she would run off, do you have an autistic child?

The LA has named a mainstream despite the Mainstream saying they can’t meet her needs, the LA have said they can.

Because they miss out and are being penalised from all the little goodbyes etc everyone else gets. Just ask if they can be picked up later and pay for after school club

Have you considered a wheelchair or SN buggy?

So then you applea and you win. Because the LA always want to get out of funding these places but they lose at tribunal.
You didnt for whatever reason and your ignoring the advice being given to you now to fix that mistake so what else do you want?

I've got an autistic child and I'm a single parent. Not a single parent with a weekend dad popping up to take the kids. I'm a single parent doing it all myself. I know how hard it is. But you have to help yourself by following the process. You cant change the process, no matter how crap it is, so you follow it.

Send her to the school. They'll fight your corner as well when everyone sees how bad it is. Follow the procedures to get another appeal.

You have to actually act. You have to help yourself. No one will do it for you.

She isnt behind academically now but she will be if you continue to home educate when you arent equipped for it and didnt even plan on it. Your other kids will suffer too.

Yes I will ask for later. I can’t physically drag her in I’m not sure why people think I can she won’t be bribed she’s got an iPad 3 members of staff physically brought her in in most mornings, I’m on my own. She sits on the floor outside the school refusing to move.

Ok so the next steps are the mainstream school saying they wont take the child and the LEA then has to look for an alternative, did this happen and did you ask for a review and did you ask for named specialist schools to be approached?

That isn’t how it works - the MS can’t just say “they won’t take the child”. Unless the school is wholly independent the LA can name the school regardless of the school’s objection, and the school must admit. If the school refuse to admit they can be directed to admit by the LA or Secretary of State depending on the type of school.

The school can go via the formal exclusion route, and if the pupil can’t attend due to their MH/anxiety etc. the LA have a statutory duty to provide alternative provision, but the school can’t just say they won’t take a pupil.

You know her best. I think people are just suggesting things but no one knows your daughter better than you.

This is ridiculous, children were let out of gates to parents from age four at DS's overseas primary. They were escorted to their parent by a year 6 student for the first term.

This

She has a PDA profile it isn’t a simple case of bribe her or make her, If the school thought she was capable of coming into the playground at pick up they wouldn’t have agreed to her leaving early every day for the last couple of years. What use to happen was her 1:1 would collect her and my 2 boys and meet me in the playground with them whilst I wait with my youngest, this happened one day where her 1:1 collected them and brought them over to me. Something happened which caused
my daughter to have a massive melt down and run off she started attacking people, including teachers and children, she just ran I couldn’t catch up with her or grab her as it came out of nowhere and I had a choice between chasing her whilst leaving my youngest with my other young children alone, no one helped me not one member of staff offered to help me or wait with the other children. After that it was agreed she would not come into the playground again at pick up, maybe now people can see why? I am not having a repeat of that I’m not bringing her in for other peoples safety as well as the stress it causes her she lashed out because she was overwhelmed.

Most schools I think would not allow children to walk on their own within school hours. Mine go to a junior school and can walk alone with permission - but wouldn’t be allowed to within school hours. So for example when we had the heatwave and they shut early, children had to be collected at lunch, they were not allowed to leave by themselves. I’m sure it would be the same if they were picked up for an appointment or similar, you couldn’t just say ‘let them go by themselves, I’ll meet them at the dentists.’ So I think that’s reasonable and standard. I think the SENCO made a bit of a dopey call, leaving 10 minutes early everyday is just not a done thing in this situation and I can see why there is confusion and the teachers aren’t complying, there will be practical reasons why it’s not working out. But that wasn’t for the OP to know. A later finish with a pick up at the office would have made more sense.