School won’t stick to agreement

[SpinningFloppa]

I posted this on SN children but no responses it’s a very quiet board and I need some advice as not sure what to do Monday, so trying again here.

I have 4 children 3 in primary, dd oldest just left school in July and is autistic thanks to her primary school she didn’t get a suitable secondary school so I’ve had no choice but to home ed (not my choice but that’s a different thread) anyway due to having 3 still at primary school I’m having to bring dd on the school run, dd is NOT coping with this and I’m having a struggle getting her down there every day, she refuses to come so I have to persuade her each day, she won’t wait outside and is becoming frustrated she also won’t come into the school grounds at all, I spoke to the school in the beginning and we came to an agreement that I would collect my other 3 early so dd doesn’t have to wait and avoids coming in, not super early only by 10 mins ... this was agreed by the senco, anyway the school are not sticking to it, and aren’t bringing them round or letting them come round alone leaving me standing outside the school gates with dd having a melt down.

Yesterday I got to the school early and buzzed on to remind them yet they still didn’t bring them out?! This meant I was stood outside the school gates unable to leave dd but also she wouldn’t come in. What can I do here as I’m at a point where I’m feeling like I can’t bring them to school as I can’t collect them! Any other options here as I’m at a loss, dd is super strong she won’t come in and gets angry if I try to make her, I will add when she was in school I was able to pick them all up early at 3 as dd couldn’t manage the noise and the crowds at pick up and after an incident happened in the play ground we came to this agreement, I’m just trying to avoid another situation happening.

They’ve been leaving early for the last few years, school and the children was fine with it as it’s only 10 mins not sure why leaving 10 mins early is “really unfair” the last 10 mins are just packing things away, I understand she’s not there anymore though so will ask for a later pick up.

I think part of the issue is that because your dd is secondary age and not at the primary school they don't have an obligation to accommodate her needs.

I'm sorry. It sounds difficult.

Does she have an ehcp? Where are you up to in the process.
If shes off school roll and youve said youre home educating, what incentive do they have to fund a SEN placement?

Yes mainstream. I’m not sending her to mainstream regardless of any situation. It’s 10 mins early. Not an hour early
It's unreasonable of you to expect teachers to release your children 10 minutes before the rest of the class. It would be hugely disruptive to classroom organization, when those ten minutes are used for issuing instructions for the next day, making sure that all the children collect water bottles or whatever else they need to take home.
The only children who should be dismissed early are those with a 1 to 1 TA who can accompany them.

Yes I’ve heard of year 4s being able to walk home alone but their school doesn’t allow it, I will speak about it though and see what they say. I will be outside so they wouldn’t be walking home alone.

She has a ehcp, it doesn’t make a difference the LA have still named mainstream against my wishes and I’m not sending her there she will not cope.

The SN chat board is more active I think OP. I don’t know if you’ve gone down the tribunal route but a chat with IPSEA might help clarify your options.

What accommodation are they putting in place? You might have to bite the bullet and let the school see the issues

Did you not challenge the accertation that she was fine at the time?

I’m not sending her to the school. No my plan was to home educate as I did not have the support of the professionals and her school who all said she was fine in mainstream so I felt defeated so no I did not challenge it and now it is too late.

Thank you I will try that in future.

The school did initially agree to it they shouldn’t have if it was a problem they could have said but they told me it was fine, in fact I didn’t even ask for early I said the usual time is fine but just if they can come out to me as I can’t come into the playground, as 3 in 3 different classes in 2 buildings means walking round the entire school, they agreed and said fine, They then was bringing them round with a TA and the office called me to say I was coming too late as TAs normally finish early so it was them that asked me to come earlier (at 3) which is what I started doing, it’s the last few time’s they’ve stopped bringing them out so I spoke to them yesterday and they said they don’t have the staff to do it, that’s fine but it shouldn’t have been agreed to if it was a problem and they are the ones that told me to come early.

It's really tricky isn't it?
My friends DD also wouldn't cope in mainstream, but she had to send her to prove it as it were. Her DD now has a place at a wonderful school for DC with SN.

No need for bitchy comments I’m going to ignore this. It wasn’t a choice of mine and I’m not sending her mainstream you don’t know my child so your opinion is irrelevant I’m asking for support not nasty comments. Typical Mumsnet.

I can see how you are impossible situation, but it's not fair on the teachers or your other children to have to leave early every day. Couldn't they leave later instead?

They asked me to come earlier

But even this meant that a staff member had to bring them out to you?

That all sounds really hard to cope with. Do you have any support?
The children would have previously been able to leave early because their sibling, who was at the school, had a special circumstance. This doesn't apply now. The SENCo should have thought that through. You might feel 10 mins is nothing but there is an amount of time the children need to legally be in school or the school can get in trouble. They won't be able to make that accomodation.

You do need to pursue a school place for your DD. It is possible for mainstream to put things into place, for them to arrange alternative provision including tutors etc. Unfortunately, if you haven't engaged with the LA and just withdrew her to home school they won't do anything.

Schools can only report what they are aware of and if she met all her EHCP targets in mainstream then that can be taken that with the same provision then she would cope. (I'm not saying that's the case but it is how it works.) It would be better to go to the named mainstream, they then have to apply for the funding to put the support in place. They can also appeal to the LA and say it's not working/suitable and then the LA has to find a suitable solution. There is more than sen or mainstream out there but unfortunately you will have to fight.

SEN board will definitely have exact advice from others who have gone through this and suitable people to contact.

I'm so sorry you're facing this. It must be so tough. Unfortunately, it will not be a quick or easy solution but I hope you can find a suitable place for DD and resolve it.

I’ve posted a lot about her school place which is why I don’t appreciate people telling me I’ve tried nothing, but I am not sending her to the mainstream that’s not an option I will consider, her school said she was fine in mainstream because she’s not behind enough academically.

It was there suggestion. I’m happy for them to leave alone and many schools allow year 4s to walk home.

This is probably a silly suggestion and I'm sorry if so but is there any way of making things a little easier for your daughter at pick up time? Such as ear defenders, use of phone/iPad. Do you drive? Would she sit in the car while you picked up the others (if you could see the car from gates). Sure it's stuff you have tried/thought about so just a suggestion. Sounds like a nightmare!

My friends DD also wouldn't cope in mainstream, but she had to send her to prove it as it were. Her DD now has a place at a wonderful school for DC with SN.

Putting children with autism in schoo placements that don't meet their needs causes school based trauma and damage to their mental health. This makes it even harder to meet their needs in school.

Parents can appeal to the SEND tribunal when an LA refuses to acknowledge the provision a child needs and names a mainstream school. It happens all the time because some parents will give up and home educate which protects the LA budgets.

OP, if your right of appeal has expired, you can ask for an early annual review or a new EHC Needs assessment, either or which will bring you a new right of appeal to the SEND tribunal. Registering the appeal is free and LAs often concede long before a hearing. It's usually worth it, even if you can't afford legal advice or independent reports.

OP, I apologise if i've missed it but what do you do for drop off in the morning? Is there any way to replicate this at the end of the day?

I can see that it would be disruptive to have to get a member of staff to bring your year 4 and year 6 children round to reception, but has the school explained why they can't just leave the class early and walk round by themselves?

The teachers might just be forgetting. Could the children have cheap watches and set an alarm, then pack up quietly and ask for permission to leave?

Thank you I’m glad someone understands, clearly these posters having a go at me have never been in this situation, I’m not sending her to a mainstream secondary For any length of time as it will damage her mental health and she would not cope, she had a 30 hour 1:1 in year 6 this is not common at all she would not have this in mainstream they expected her to attend with nothing. How do you go from 30 hours to nothing? You don’t. She wasn’t even left alone at play time or lunch time she was with someone all day.