School won’t stick to agreement

[SpinningFloppa]

I posted this on SN children but no responses it’s a very quiet board and I need some advice as not sure what to do Monday, so trying again here.

I have 4 children 3 in primary, dd oldest just left school in July and is autistic thanks to her primary school she didn’t get a suitable secondary school so I’ve had no choice but to home ed (not my choice but that’s a different thread) anyway due to having 3 still at primary school I’m having to bring dd on the school run, dd is NOT coping with this and I’m having a struggle getting her down there every day, she refuses to come so I have to persuade her each day, she won’t wait outside and is becoming frustrated she also won’t come into the school grounds at all, I spoke to the school in the beginning and we came to an agreement that I would collect my other 3 early so dd doesn’t have to wait and avoids coming in, not super early only by 10 mins ... this was agreed by the senco, anyway the school are not sticking to it, and aren’t bringing them round or letting them come round alone leaving me standing outside the school gates with dd having a melt down.

Yesterday I got to the school early and buzzed on to remind them yet they still didn’t bring them out?! This meant I was stood outside the school gates unable to leave dd but also she wouldn’t come in. What can I do here as I’m at a point where I’m feeling like I can’t bring them to school as I can’t collect them! Any other options here as I’m at a loss, dd is super strong she won’t come in and gets angry if I try to make her, I will add when she was in school I was able to pick them all up early at 3 as dd couldn’t manage the noise and the crowds at pick up and after an incident happened in the play ground we came to this agreement, I’m just trying to avoid another situation happening.

The school doesn’t get to decide at what age your child or children can walk alone.

let them know your year 4 and year 6 kids will be walking to you together from now on. Do it in writing.

They can make a social services referral if they truly believe it puts the children at risk, but frankly SS won’t consider an 8 and 10 year old walking 100m together from the school gate to their parent a safe guarding issue and if they did it might actually help you with support for the eldest.

@SpinningFloppa so they tried it and it didn't work. But you can't really blame them for that. They don't have a duty of care to your dd any more.

Someone who is unable to correctly use punctuation should probably not lecture others on mistakes. A totally uncalled for attack on a parent who clearly has more than enough to del with.

They can make a social services referral if they truly believe it puts the children at risk, but frankly SS won’t consider an 8 and 10 year old walking 100m together from the school gate to their parent a safe guarding issue and if they did it might actually help you with support for the eldest.

You could ask for a social care assessment from the children with disabilities team. If you do, you need to be clear that they are not carrying out a child protection assessment. This is about support, not safeguarding so the assessment should not be carried out by the safeguarding team.

And this is why one should preview posts.

*deal with, obviously 😆

Oh and for the poster being nasty and pointing out a spelling mistake no one is perfect even their teachers make spelling mistakes! I read the emails 🙄 the mainstream secondary school said they CANT meet my daughters needs they told me this and her primary school in an emergency annual review! They told the LA in December they can’t meet her needs but they was still named by the LA as I’ve been told the LA can override this, so you know nothing of my situation to say I’ve not tried anything no I haven’t sent her to a school that told me they couldn’t meet her needs. They have said themselves that the place would not be suitable.

Oh absolutely. My friend was very lucky in that the school were really helpful. Some days she only went in for a lesson or 2. Didn't have to wear uniform. Etc etc.

I have another friend in the same situation as OP who also made the decision to withdraw her DC from school and home school. Because the schools near them were not supportive at all.

@SpinningFloppa my dcs primary were the same with the walking home alone thing. Not at all until year 6. They wouldn't let my year 8 pick up my year 5 either. Since they've left the new head has changed it to not allowed to walk home alone until the last term of year 6! Mental.

The last ten minutes are really hectic for the teacher. There's so much going on, so many things to remember, and so much to done by the normal end of school, that juggling so many balls means it's the worst possible time of day to remember that one of your 30 kids has to leave.

With the best will in the world, it's going to be overlooked sometimes. It's a bigger ask than you think.

I would suggest you take the LA to tribunal. Over 90% of parents win at tribunal and they need to provide her with a suitable placement. LAs are notorious for trying to weasel out of specialist SEN school placements. I'd repost on the SEN board to get advice on how you can progress to tribunal. I have a friend doing exactly this at the moment, it's not quick but is essential as she can't home educate forever.

You are letting them off the hook OP.
You are your daughters ambassador.

Home education is a valid choice, but it should be a positive choice. Not sonething youre railroaded into. Your daughter has an ehcp so she has legal protection and funding to have her needs met.

Do you have specific concerns about the school she was offered. If the LEA and the school have decided that they are able to meet her needs, what are they offering?

I think you are in a stronger position than you think, but maybe focussing on the wrong thing ( the old primary school) rather than getting your dd a placement.

You might not even get a SEN school placement, but you could insist thE Ehcp funds education in another setting.
Tell the LEA that your disabled child with a health care plan was not offered a suitable school placement or package and that you want a team around the child meeting as you feel youve been forced into a situation that you dont want and cant manage alongside your other children

Many if not most kids with asd go to mainstream. Dd was in mainstream the

Even my daughters senco said before she left that we should go to the mainstream and visit so we can tell the LA why it’s not suitable, she was going to come with me but when she spoke to the senco at the mainstream secondary she said that we don’t need to visit anymore as the school have said they can’t meet her needs and she assumed my daughter had been given a place at the dsp which they also said wouldn’t be suitable but she hasn’t even been given that she was given a mainstream place. So you know nothing about the situation and why she isn’t at the mainstream. Anyway I’m not asking about school places just an immediate solution to this but I think picking up later or them coming out together at the end of the day is going to be the best solution.

If this was agreed by the SENCO maybe there is a breakdown in communication. I would email the teachers and SENCO in same email and say this was agreed etc and can that you want everyone to reply so we all know where we are. If that doesn’t work maybe speak to HT.

OP won’t listen to those telling her to appeal DD’s EHCP and how by EHE she is relieving the LA of their duties. She has posted multiple times this year. Each thread includes posters telling her to appeal to SENDIST, how to do that, what to do now she’s out of the time limit to appeal, charities to contact and that she may be eligible for Legal Aid and if not to approach charities who can sometimes fund independent assessments.

@gogohmm

Many if not most kids with asd go to mainstream.

That doesn't mean it's right for them.

What an impossible situation you have found yourself in.
I have not been a class room teacher for over 30 years but I do remember that the end of the day is a very difficult, busy time. It would not have been a straight forward thing just to let a child out of class, even in those more relaxed days. Perhaps your children’s teachers are finding it difficult to manage the situation too.
You really seem to have a much more pressing situation with your eldest daughter. I do hope you don’t mind me commenting on it.
It is a good thing that although your daughter does have issues she has managed to overcome them and keep up academically in primary school. I hope that you are congratulating yourself on that, because a lot of her success will be down to you.
Unfortunately you may find that by withdrawing her from the school system she may start to slip back. Home education is very difficult without the correct support and I hope you have this in place.

I can’t appeal I said before I missed the deadline for tribunal, we did an emergency annual review before she left school, I was told this would give me the right of appeal, as they would write to me to tell me they weren’t making any changes, they have not wrote to me at all. The only other way is to do another emergency annual review with the secondary which I won’t be doing as I’m not sending her there and have already declined the place. I’ve missed tribunal I’ve said this time and time again I’ve missed it and there is a deadline, I wasn’t asking for help with school places just the best solution for collecting my other children.

I think you should have tried (& sadly failed) with mainstream for your DD.
If the school sends DD home or isn't coping you'll be in a far better position with the LA. They then will have to act.

Looking at your posts, at the moment it looks like you didn't want to send DD to the allocated school. You chose to homeschooling instead. This is also supported by whatever the primary school said.

I understand it's a difficult uphill battle, but unfortunately you'll have to play ball in order to get what you want/ need.

@SpinningFloppa

Sorry for posting again, but what do you do for drop off in the morning? Is there any way to replicate this at the end of the day?

I would go back to the LA and ask them to provide your child with a suitable school place.
they will likely offer the original school (if they are now still under number).
Accept the place - your daughter will go on-roll and be back in the system.
allow the school to offer ‘reasonable adjustments’ (eg initial small sessions with you in attendance). You might be surprised. Lots of students who came to us from having a 1:1 managed fine with a 3:1. If your daughter can’t manage they will likely give her a 1:1 and use this as evidence to help you apply for alternative provision in a special school.
If your daughter completely refuses to attend - again this is evidence for an alternative provision place. The school will work with you to evidence this as it would impact their attendance figures. If you’re out of the system though there’s no one in your corner trying to help.

I’m surprised the SENCO agreed to it, it does sound like a faffy and disruptive arrangement, they should have consulted the head and the teachers properly and my guess is they didn’t hence why it’s falling through . Definitely propose a later pickup. The kids can just wait outside the office for 15 minutes with the other ‘not arranged’ late kids, it will make no difference to anyone.

OP if you are EHE then the LA still has a duty to review her EHCP. Request an early annual review meeting and request for a specialist setting to be consulted with. The LA have to do this, yes they will consult with local mainstream provision as this is what was previously named in the EHCP. Take it from there.

In regards to your current situation, set up a meeting with the head or Senco and ask for their support. See if there’s an after school club they can attend to ease the pressure?

The children go in alone but this is normal parents bring them to the gate then they walk in through reception to their class. After school they are not allowing them to walk back around alone.

Can you collect the younger children late rather than early? Ask school to sit them in the office for 15 minutes, then you can grab and go.

Hi Floppa, we spoke on your other thread. Sorry things are still so tricky. Can you try calling the NAS helpline? They may have someone who can help advocate for you and get this all sorted.
In the short term, you are probably right to think you will have to pick up later for a while - can you get this agreed by meeting with the Headteacher? If that is difficult, you could ask for school for the contact details for the Governor with responsibility for SEN and ask for their support.
If you can also get your dd back on to the LA register, it will definitely make your life easier. Email the LA and the secondary and tell them you would like dd to return to mainstream, as named on the EHCP. If your DD is then unable to attend due to her anxiety/medical needs, the LA will be required to provide some alternative education - this could be a tutor coming to your home. If you can get the timing right, this could be arranged for a time that would help you meet the pick up needs of the other children. Would this be an option for you?
Try not to worry about being fined for non-attendance of dd at mainstream. If you are doing everything you can to get a suitable school place for dd, you are not going to get fined. If she is unable to attend mainstream due anxiety for example, then get a gp letter to support that and email the mainstream to explain she is not able to attend due anxiety/meltdowns/needs not being met. Then move ahead with the emergency EHCP review.