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Original poster

prevent children from relocating abroad with the other parent

231 replies

reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 12:01

NC for this thread.

A (male) friend of mine had a brief and unhappy marriage (now divorced for a couple of years) and two children from it. The mother of the children is originally not from the UK and had asked the family court for a permission to relocate with their children back to her own country (non EU, not English speaking, and very underdeveloped).

His children are his life (without any exaggeration, he is talking about them all the time), he sees them almost every week, and has a very close and loving relationship. They go on the day trips, to zoos, parks and museums, and are really happy together. He also plans to apply for at least a 50/50 custody once they are a little bit older and the court takes their views into account.

He will have a direct access barrister representing him during the process (which will cost him all his savings), but he is currently retraining for a new career and does not earn anything so cannot afford a solicitor on a day-to-day basis. The mother has a professional job (they met through work) and is reasonably well-off, it is not the case that she struggles in any way - a homeowner, has a cleaner / nanny / dog walker, able to afford nursery fees etc.

He asked me to help with all possible arguments why the children should not be relocating abroad (they spent almost their life in the UK, despite being born in that country). Not from the legal perspective, it will be the barrister's job to convert them into the statement for the court, but rather from the children's perspective. He is very distraught now and not thinking straight, this application was a complete surprise for him.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 29/10/2019 12:34

You forgot the bit where he caught her cheating in her country of origin, then she moved back to UK, made him leave his house, then moved the OM over here and into his house.Halloween Confused

I'd say you couldn't make it up, but this bloke has and the OP has fallen for it hook line and sinker.Halloween Hmm

Anotheruser02 · 29/10/2019 12:35

Woo Grin

WooMaWang · 29/10/2019 12:47

I did indeed, @DioneTheDiabolist. How could I have missed that twist is the evil ex-wife's dreadful plan?

And then she split up with the OM and presumably sent him back to the shithole from whence he came.

And there's the fact that this poor guy is paying way over the £7 a week the CMS will charge him (or possibly not because he appears to both work and not work) presumably from the savings he has. But he doesn't reduce this so as to give him money to pay a solicitor to fight the evil witch who is trying to take his children to live in the backwards hellhole the OM has been relegated to. Or to, you know, put himself in a position to house his children.

Or the fact that he's such an excellent father that the mother pays for a nanny as childcare while he doesn't work. And he sees them for a few hours most weekends. And has managed a single overnight (probably in the house he's still paying the mortgage for because the divorce settlement says he must) but only because it was an emergency.

catspyjamas123 · 29/10/2019 13:34

The divorce law certainly seems to work very differently in this fictional world. Nobody is paying my mortgage for me, I had to buy out my ex so I could go on housing my children while he paid CMS pittance.

marcopront · 29/10/2019 15:02

@WooMaWang
You also missed that even though he has to live in a house share, has no job and can't afford a solicitor he can support his ex in laws in their visa application.

I think the immigration laws are as strange in this world as the divorce ones

WooMaWang · 29/10/2019 15:07

Yes. That too.

I think all the laws are a bit weird in this version of the uk.

DioneTheDiabolist · 29/10/2019 15:37

Immigration laws.
Divorce laws.
In-laws.
Halloween Grin

PracticallySpeaking · 29/10/2019 15:41

@Anotheruser02 Yes that’s right that it doesn’t matter which passports the children have.

My DD has a British passport, so do I and so does her dad (my ex-husband) but I still need permission from him or the courts to move from the foreign country we live in back to the U.K. She also wasn’t born in the country we are in.

My current husband also lives and works in the U.K. and we are expecting a baby. So I’m stuck here away from my husband (soon to be father of my second child) and my family, just so my daughter can see her dad eow, which I’ve offered to bring her back here to visit him eow.

I can see how it sucks for the father in this situation but please spare some thought for the mother, and also the children (the mother is their primary caregiver) and they need a mother who is happy and has support

Thehouseintheforest · 29/10/2019 15:45

Of course we opened it IworkAtTheCheesecakeFactory ! It was addressed to my husband at our home address.! The frank mark of 'Blogs & co' on the envelope meant nothing to us.. only when it was opened did the letter say .. Dear Mrs (same surname as mine) please find enclosed the invoice for our professional fees.. for some moments I thought it was a bill to me !

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 29/10/2019 15:51

It was addressed to my husband at our home address.

That’s a different story than what you originally posted

“Her useless solicitors send the bill to the wrong address - her name our house !)”

LonginesPrime · 29/10/2019 16:11

guarantee to the immigration authorities that they wont be a drain on the welfare system

If he can't even afford to support his children, how is he going to support the grandparents?

He sounds delusional, OP.

mamandematribu · 29/10/2019 16:28

@WooMaWang thanks for simplifying and condensing the story Halloween GrinHalloween Grin

This is all like an Episode of eastenders

WooMaWang · 29/10/2019 17:00

Simplifying. 😂

Dyrne · 29/10/2019 17:17

OP can you quickly explain one thing - why did your Brother/Son/BIL retrain to a different job that is more “family friendly” only to continue to only see his children “mostly” weekly?

angell84 · 30/10/2019 14:41

This is always the wrong thing to do, but mothers are incredibly selfish in things like this. And courts right now give mothers too much control. Why should have a mother have children for any time longer than the father has them. Why is she seen as the primary parent? Both parents are equally important.

My story- my father was a UK citizen, my mother was from an EU country. They married in the UK, and had two children in the UK. They divorced. Like this woman, OP, my mother applied to the court to take us back to her own country. They refused.

She took us anyway, and went on the run for years. She threatened my father by saying she would tell the police that he beat her up, he didn't, and that she would get him arrested if he went to her country. Now, I think that she would be arrested and made to come back. But at the time, he was scared of her. She was very cruel and malicious.

It ruined all our lives.

My father committed suicide.
My brother has been in and out of psychiatric hospitals.
I have been so badly hurt by this all.

Neither me or my brother speak to my mother.

To the mothers out there that do this. If you try and control your children when they are young, they will remember this all when they are older, and they will not speak to you at all. Is that what you want? This kind of action - mother weilding control over - Ruins many lives.

Tell your friend to stand up for himself - apply for 5050 again. Refuse to let her leave the country - and if she does, without his permission- the law is on his side! Arrest her.

Dyrne · 30/10/2019 14:43

angell84 I’m sorry for your experience, however you must realise that your situation is completely different to the one described here?

Here, the father has little interest in pursuing a 50:50 relationship with his children, and there is zero indication that the mother will break the law.

angell84 · 30/10/2019 14:46

@dyrne did you miss the part , where it said he applied for 50/50 and was denied?

I think that a mother even thinking of taking her children to a different country than their father, is incredibly selfish.

I would KNOW that it would hirt everyone.

I just want to tell the OP to get her friend to fight. Don't give up.

Dyrne · 30/10/2019 14:49

angell84 I didn’t miss the part where the father applied for 50:50 of very young children (~6 months); was understandably denied, and the revelation that the father has made zero move to apply for increased custody as the children got older.

angell84 · 30/10/2019 14:52

@dyrne but where is the compassion in this?

When is it ever okay to take children away from one parent - to another country.

If it was a woman - and her partner took her children off to Saudi Arabia (for example), can you see then - the unbearable pain it causes?

People kill themselves over their children being taken away from them. Mothers do not stop to think!

DioneTheDiabolist · 30/10/2019 14:57

The father here sees the children nearly every week for a few hours, not the usual starting point of EOW. The court decided he should not have overnights. He still doesn't have suitable accommodation for them 3 years down the line.

The mother is seen as their Primary Parent because that's what she is. Their father seems to be a feckless liar who shirks responsibility, blames others and tells lies.

angell84 · 30/10/2019 15:13

@dionethediabolist my heart breaks at what you just said.

Where in your post - thinks about the children.

What about what they want? Most children would want to live in the same country as their father

Dyrne · 30/10/2019 15:14

angell84 this is obviously a sensitive issue for you, and has touched a nerve. I won’t belabour the point; but hopefully you may at some point be able to step back and accept that in some cases, with an absent father, it may be in the children’s best interests to be relocated to be better supported by the mother’s family, with potentially more quality time spent with the father through holiday visits etc than trying to remain in the UK with a worse quality of life for the sake of a couple of hours here and there ‘nearly’ every week with a father who clearly isn’t really bothered. I don’t think anyone here is supporting the mother whisking the children off into the night.

Starlight456 · 30/10/2019 15:28

This is one of those I would love to hear mums side of the story.

It has been made obvious applied for 50/50 before baby was 6 months old .

Reduced maintenance to 1/4 of original figure.

Takes dc out for a few hours most weeks . No place for overnight care never mind 50/50z

He doesn’t seem to consider what is in child’s best interest instead now mum wants to move away wants to take child 50% of the time despite dc been used to been with mum 7 days a week.

Whether mum is thinking if child here . I do not know as. I idea where or why she wants to move.

This is from the person supporting him .

angell84 · 30/10/2019 15:29

@starlight456

But why does no one ask the child what they want to do?

Starlight456 · 30/10/2019 15:39

We have no idea unless I have missed it how old this child is .

It is too big a decision for a young child to make as they can’t understand the consequences of such a huge decision.

We don’t know if parents have spoken to the child.

I am not saying it is the right thing for this child simply I don’t believe dad is acting in the best interest of the child