prevent children from relocating abroad with the other parent

[reallywanttohelp]

NC for this thread.

A (male) friend of mine had a brief and unhappy marriage (now divorced for a couple of years) and two children from it. The mother of the children is originally not from the UK and had asked the family court for a permission to relocate with their children back to her own country (non EU, not English speaking, and very underdeveloped).

His children are his life (without any exaggeration, he is talking about them all the time), he sees them almost every week, and has a very close and loving relationship. They go on the day trips, to zoos, parks and museums, and are really happy together. He also plans to apply for at least a 50/50 custody once they are a little bit older and the court takes their views into account.

He will have a direct access barrister representing him during the process (which will cost him all his savings), but he is currently retraining for a new career and does not earn anything so cannot afford a solicitor on a day-to-day basis. The mother has a professional job (they met through work) and is reasonably well-off, it is not the case that she struggles in any way - a homeowner, has a cleaner / nanny / dog walker, able to afford nursery fees etc.

He asked me to help with all possible arguments why the children should not be relocating abroad (they spent almost their life in the UK, despite being born in that country). Not from the legal perspective, it will be the barrister's job to convert them into the statement for the court, but rather from the children's perspective. He is very distraught now and not thinking straight, this application was a complete surprise for him.

It’s very unlikely he could force the sale of a family home his young children are living in. Most of his information doesn’t make sense, he sounds like a feckless liar tbh. He gave up a high powered job to go back to university but he was paying child support while unemployed? Uh huh.

Luckily for him the courts almost always rule against taking the kids away from the country in which they’re habitually resident. So she’ll probably have to stay here with them so he can take them out occasionally on a weekday.

Non existent credit history despite having a very good job, a nanny, a cleaner, a child in nursery, a child in private school and being responsible for a jointly owned home she presumably pays all the utilities for?
Yes because you have to be on the electoral roll to be accepted as a borrower, without this the credit score does not exist and the bank cannot verify that she's solvent. Or maybe it is just convenient for her to say so. She has to go through an annual mortgage capacity assessment according to their divorce agreement, but of course this can be sabotaged easily by missing a credit card or utility bill payment.

He needs to be applying for 50/50, primary aged kids are typically 50/50 these days where practical, actually by secondary school it's adjusted to suit the kids. He's either had very bad advice or isn't telling you the whole truth, the mother doesn't decide on overnights, though rarely under one year especially if breastfeeding

Non existent credit history despite having a very good job, a nanny, a cleaner, a child in nursery, a child in private school and being responsible for a jointly owned home she presumably pays all the utilities for?
I don't know whether the child is in private school or not btw, it is something that was invented by someone in this thread. I only said that I don't know why the child does not have free lunches at school. I saw the father putting money on the child's school lunch account with my own eyes (never mind that he was broke and used my card for these £15, so I even have hard evidence), but apparently everyone else knows better.

Another 8 month pregnant woman having an affair 🤣 yeah right.

It’s funny how evil ex wives are these days.

It’s very unlikely he could force the sale of a family home his young children are living in. Most of his information doesn’t make sense, he sounds like a feckless liar tbh.

So any equity he may have is tied up in the house, which according to you he won't be able to sell because it's his children's home. He was forced to leave because his wife was having an affair and he's now living in the only accommodation that he can afford but he'd a feckless liar?

How come? If the wife was having the affair surely she should have left the family home?

He needs to be applying for 50/50, primary aged kids are typically 50/50 these days where practical, actually by secondary school it's adjusted to suit the kids.
Thanks for the support. Yes, it does look like the best course of action for him is to apply for a 50/50, not simply oppose her petition for relocating with the children. A couple of posters said that he was badly advised previously (i.e. not to apply for 50/50 with young kids), well this indeed seems to be the case (and strange as it was a very experienced family solicitor who told him this).

To be fair, nobody who puts getting a british passport as a priority is going to be going to court to be allowed to go back to her own country.
She does not want to get a British passport now (which was her main goal in life once, and it looks like the only reason for the marriage tbh). She is even refusing to apply for the new post-Brexit settlement visa now, intentionally putting herself in a vulnerable position.

Are the children British citizens? What will their legal status be in this other country?

If she is not an EU citizen then surely nothing changes for her wrt Brexit? Sorry but there's a lot he's (she's?) saying that doesn't make any sense

Are the children British citizens? What will their legal status be in this other country?
Yes British + another EU nationality, dual nationals (the father has this other nationality through his parents). I don't know whether they are even entitled to enter that country, never mind being resident there. It is a good question and obviously adds extra complications.

If she is not an EU citizen then surely nothing changes for her wrt Brexit? Sorry but there's a lot he's (she's?) saying that doesn't make any sense
The children are EU nationals and she obtained a permission to stay in the UK after divorce until they are of age as their carer. She was on a marriage visa before.

You don't have to opt in to school lunches and there is no threshold. Every child up to the end of year 2 (aged 6/7) is eligible for free school meals irrespective of income. After Y2 you are eligible for them if in receipt of certain benefits.

To be honest OP, you sound like you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Who told you this nonsense about the school meals? Because if you've been fed that, who knows what else you've been fed? If it smells like bullshit...

I don't know whether they are even entitled to enter that country, never mind being resident there

And that’s why you should stay out of this problem. Soon you will find yourself paying the legal fees of this looser. Looking at how he talks about the mother of his children, who is doing most of the parenting and providing single handedly, are you sure you want to stand by him? You may be next OP.

The mother of the children is originally not from the UK and had asked the family court for a permission to relocate with their children back to her own country (non EU, not English speaking, and very underdeveloped).

This was in your original post so I think you need to sort out the facts.

And if the child is in private school (which you've admitted you don't know), who is paying those fees? Not him if he's broke and using your card. And don't most private schools pay the lunch fees upfront termly? The ones by me do.
Our state school does top up, but as I said, unnecessary for a child aged 5.

OP I'd stop posting now if I were you. With every post you are adding more and more holes to this story - you're either making it up as you go along or he's fed you a line.

@IdiotInDisguise

Maybe you are right, it does look like I am overinvesting into this. I probably got too agitated when people started to assume awful stuff. To be honest, I have never heard a single bad word about the mother of his children from him, it is usually the opposite - I am critical of her and he is defensive lol.
It is a person dear to me (NOT a boyfriend or partner as so many assumed), and it breaks my heart to see him so stressed. What if he wants to start another family (everyone is entitled to some happiness, even if they made mistakes in their life before), then he will have to split his time not only between his children, but even between different countries. It is just putting him into an impossible position to be in.

What if he wants to start another family (everyone is entitled to some happiness, even if they made mistakes in their life before), then he will have to split his time not only between his children, but even between different countries. It is just putting him into an impossible position to be in.

A sensible man wouldn’t even try to start another family until he knew where his children were going to be living. If they move abroad GeV then could decide whether he could manage travelling to see them along with raising his younger children. It’s really not difficult. What’s impossible about that?

@ArnoldBee
Yes, what I meant is that I am not sure whether British / EU citizen children can enter the mother's country and live there freely (i.e. without any restrictions on the time spent there and with access to usual public services).
E.g. as a British or EU citizen one can enter (for example) Thailand but cannot just choose to stay and live there (more than for 90 days I think) without sorting all the paperwork first. That's what I meant.

I'm honestly pretty shocked at the responses you have had on this thread. Op has stated that Dad applied for and was refused 50/50. He pays maintenance and sees his children when he is allowed to, as well as being involved in education, health etc. And yet people are still under the impression that his school age children would be better off not only having him removed from their lives, but also having their whole world turned upside down. This is really not about which adult deserves what... It is about children once again being victims to the whims of their parents crap decision making.

I'm sorry but this a load of tosh. I'm a foreign national now naturalized a British citizen.

1- the visa to bring her parents over simply doesn't exist unless they have about £2million in the bank.

2- you can't take children out of the country permanently without a court order . She wont get it as the usual residence of the children is the UK .

So tell your friend he has nothing to worry about.

@IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory
Yes you're right. I was just saying that this is a decision made solely by one parent which can totally ruin the life of another parent.

Oh I'm being so slow here. You want him to move in with you don't you OP and you thought we'd all suggest that as a way to strengthen his legal case?

You don't have to be on the electoral roll to get credit in the UK. It makes it easier, but isn't required.