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Original poster

prevent children from relocating abroad with the other parent

231 replies

reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 12:01

NC for this thread.

A (male) friend of mine had a brief and unhappy marriage (now divorced for a couple of years) and two children from it. The mother of the children is originally not from the UK and had asked the family court for a permission to relocate with their children back to her own country (non EU, not English speaking, and very underdeveloped).

His children are his life (without any exaggeration, he is talking about them all the time), he sees them almost every week, and has a very close and loving relationship. They go on the day trips, to zoos, parks and museums, and are really happy together. He also plans to apply for at least a 50/50 custody once they are a little bit older and the court takes their views into account.

He will have a direct access barrister representing him during the process (which will cost him all his savings), but he is currently retraining for a new career and does not earn anything so cannot afford a solicitor on a day-to-day basis. The mother has a professional job (they met through work) and is reasonably well-off, it is not the case that she struggles in any way - a homeowner, has a cleaner / nanny / dog walker, able to afford nursery fees etc.

He asked me to help with all possible arguments why the children should not be relocating abroad (they spent almost their life in the UK, despite being born in that country). Not from the legal perspective, it will be the barrister's job to convert them into the statement for the court, but rather from the children's perspective. He is very distraught now and not thinking straight, this application was a complete surprise for him.

OP posts:
PicsInRed · 27/10/2019 13:27

(the mother makes them wear shoes that are two sizes too small).

Oh, the fuck she does.

Pays for the oldest child's school lunches, as the mother is too busy to log in and pay for it, and the child goes hungry if the balance is too low.

What a load of nonsense.

He's spun you a right line, OP.
His job wasn't family friendly, so he jacked it in, supported by his wealthy family, pays more than stat low income child support, (more than £7 a week, well done Dad 👏 ) barely sees the kids, then says he'll get a higher paying and less family friendly job again ... just in time for when he'll supposedly be having the kids 50/50.

He is absolutely full of shit.

Don't have kids with this one, OP just friends my arse.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 27/10/2019 13:28

Honestly I've seen actual just friends of my ex defend him to this degree and then some, so I can well believe it.

I just think you do someone more of a service by providing a reality check sometimes.

Original poster
reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 13:29

@NailsNeedDoing
Thanks for the support. Yes, that's what I thought would be the most helpful, to sit down with him and to write down all the arguments under the headings of

  • Healthcare (only private available)
  • Schooling (and higher education, which is almost non existent there)
  • Wider Family Impact (separation from loving grandparents here in the UK, why maternal grandparents are suddenly more important than paternal)
  • Relationship with Dad (expensive flights, the children not encouraged to learn English so they might not even have means of communications etc)
... etc. etc.
OP posts:
Original poster
reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 13:31

@SuperLoudPoppingAction
I don't know if it is a state or private school. Could be that it is private, and that's why there are paid lunches only.

OP posts:
Frazzled2207 · 27/10/2019 13:32

School lunch argument does not stack up, they all get it to year 2. Unless you're in Scotland?

strawbebbies · 27/10/2019 13:32

Assuming it's the same in England as it is in Scotland you still have to opt for universal free school meals so it's possible their mother has chosen not do this.

It's impossible to tell without actually knowing them wether the dad is actually doing as much as op says he is but I do think a lot of posters are projecting their own useless exes onto him and making assumptions

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 27/10/2019 13:33

www.mygov.scot/school-meals/ we have it in Scotland

RubaDubMum89 · 27/10/2019 13:33

OP, you sound very misguided helping this man. Do you have children yourself? Would you be happy with his role in your children's lives if he were your ex? I wouldn't be....

The way I read this:

For a start, he fucked off and left ex when she was pregnant and with a toddler to raise both alone after she gave birth. I'm sure many people will tell you how difficult it is to manage the late stages of pregnancy and a toddler. Alone.

She doesn't allow over night visits - because he lives in a shared bloody house. He doesn't want them or he'd relocate to somewhere more suitable for his children. You say he has savings enough to go to court... Why doesn't or hasn't he used them up until this point to enable himself to have more access to the children?

The kids have clothes that are too small and shoes? Ever thought the mum can't afford because their dead beat dad doesn't pay maintenance? So what she works? She has two children to care for, rent to pay, bills to pay, food and clothes for all three of them. And this tosser pays over the government minimum? Well done him, he has no income so his minimum is £0 presumably. You say he paid even when he was on benefits, I'm sure the total amount per child in that case is ~£7 a month.
In regards to the baby, that would of bought a two packs of aldi nappies. Which would of been used in a day or two. It wouldn't have even bought a tub of formula.

How I see this, without criticising every point you've so lovingly made in his defence: this guys a cunt, who plays, by choice, a minimal role in his kids lives. It will make barely any difference to the kids to move with their mum, they see him once a week for a few hours. They're tiny. They'll forget they saw him once a week and be perfectly happy to visit daddy in the holidays when they're older.

DobbinIsUnVeiledAsSatan · 27/10/2019 13:37

It reads to me that he's done everything to make things difficult for his ex, with little concern for the impact on his DC.

If his family/savings are at a level to support his ex's family, why isn't he already living somewhere the DC can stay over?

What school let's a 5 year old go hungry?Tbh I thought most areas had universal free school meals for first couple of years at primary school.

IdiotInDisguise · 27/10/2019 13:47

Oh god, so they must be going to private school? You have no clue OP, do you? Grin

I don’t know many private schools but the one my child attended provided lunch. We didn’t have to pay for it for the simple reason it was included in the fees.

If I were you, I would stay well away of this issue, you may be enabling an irresponsible father to screw the mother of his children further.

She is doing a much better job as a parent than he does. If you care a bit for these kids keep away of this.

DioneTheDiabolist · 27/10/2019 13:47

The most important thing your friend could have done/can do is provide a home for his children to stay. In 3 years he has failed to do this and isn't even seeing them weekly. I dont rate his chances.

TequilaPilates · 27/10/2019 13:48

Why are you all just making up stories here?

None of you know why the marriage ended - maybe it was the mum that ended it? Maybe she had an affair? What's the dad meant to do then - just refuse to move.out or risk being labelled a cunt?

He's presumably living in a house share because that's all that he can afford. Maybe he should force the sale of the family home so that he can get back some equity to buy a 1 bedroom flat and leave his ex wife and 2 small children to find a smaller property to live in eh to prove to all of you that he's not a cunt?

Maybe he made the decision to live in a crappy house share so that his children could carry on living in their home?

Why don't you judge based on the information that you're given, rather than making up your own stories?

Original poster
reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 13:51

@RubaDubMum89
I don't want to reply to every point you make, but you are making a lot of assumptions, and I feel sorry as you must have had really bad experience in life to assume the worst.
He did not fuck off leaving her holding the baby. He walked in on her cheating on him when she was 8 months pregnant. After this she had made an ultimatum to him that he has to pack and leave his own home immediately or she will call the police and accuse him falsely of domestic violence. I saw evidence (texts etc) of everything, it is not just his words. She lived with this new man for a couple of months, then he also left. Neither of them is an angel (is anyone of us really?), but here the balance of power is simply too skewed, and I see why he is very stressed.

OP posts:
IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 27/10/2019 13:52

His children are his life

So much so he only sees them most weeks, and never overnight. Grin

(without any exaggeration, he is talking about them all the time),

DobbinIsUnVeiledAsSatan · 27/10/2019 13:53

Iirc there's an additional fee for school dinners if they've been over-egged

It's an egg-stra

mamandematribu · 27/10/2019 13:54

He needs legal advice himself, you shouldn't be asking for him.

DioneTheDiabolist · 27/10/2019 13:54

OP, you said the mum is the home owner in your OP. Is it her house or his?Halloween Confused

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 27/10/2019 13:55

The mother earns above the cut off for the free school lunches if I understand correctly

OP it is extremely clear to everyone here that you understand very little of this situation correctly and shouldn’t be involved in his access arrangements. No mater how much you fancy him.

Original poster
reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 13:56

He's presumably living in a house share because that's all that he can afford. Maybe he should force the sale of the family home so that he can get back some equity to buy a 1 bedroom flat and leave his ex wife and 2 small children to find a smaller property to live in eh to prove to all of you that he's not a cunt?
That is exactly what happened. He has an equity share in the old family house and could enforce the sale tomorrow if he wants, but the mother's credit score in the UK due to being a foreign national does not exist at all (so she can't get a mortgage), so they agreed to wait as long as possible until she gets a British passport or saves enough money and buys him out. It could easily be 10 years or so, and it is London too so not cheap to live.

OP posts:
Original poster
reallywanttohelp · 27/10/2019 13:58

OP, you said the mum is the home owner in your OP. Is it her house or his?
In both of their names (so both home owners), she is currently living there with the children.

OP posts:
IdiotInDisguise · 27/10/2019 14:03

To be fair, nobody who puts getting a british passport as a priority is going to be going to court to be allowed to go back to her own country.

He has spun you another big little lie OP.

DobbinIsUnVeiledAsSatan · 27/10/2019 14:04

The father even offered to help with relocating the maternal grandparents to the UK so that she could have family support (write an invitation letter / guarantee to the immigration authorities that they wont be a drain on the welfare system, and everything else required for the family visa). It was turned down for unknown reason.

He has savings, and his family is quite well off too. It is just at the moment he tries to live as frugally as possible, whilst retraining.

Now you're saying he lives in a house share so as not to disrupt the DC. Whilst believing the mother neglects basics, such as shoes that fit and food at lunchtime.

Make it make sense

Ostanovka · 27/10/2019 14:05

Non existent credit history despite having a very good job, a nanny, a cleaner, a child in nursery, a child in private school and being responsible for a jointly owned home she presumably pays all the utilities for?

AlkaSeltz · 27/10/2019 14:06

You don't have to opt in to free school lunches. Someone is lying

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 27/10/2019 14:09

Non existent credit history despite having a very good job, a nanny, a cleaner, a child in nursery, a child in private school and being responsible for a jointly owned home she presumably pays all the utilities for?

Makes sense doesn’t it? Grin

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