Maintenance, how much is enough?

[Longlongsummer]

I was wondering about maintenance payments. My ex has paid £180 a month for years. I get that it’s based on income, however he’s self employed so doesn’t declare half of it!

I used to have a good job however I decided to take a part time one to be around more for our son. I’m the main carer. So I don’t earn very much at all.

I think that this is very low. As effectively I am still covering over half of my child’s costs, in mortgage, clothes, food etc. My son in total does not cost only £360 a month I can tell you! I’ve added it up to budget better.

I’m sure that there are parents out there coping with less, less money and less maintenance. Why are we? Why aren’t we shouting that it’s not right?

I also pay for all the extra activities that my son does, music lessons, child care when younger, extra tuition. He has some mild learning difficulties and I’ve paid for extra help. I’ve paid for every single penny of everything without receiving any extra and I’m feeling a little sick of being both the main breadwinner and main carer.

I’ve talked with other lone parents, and this seems to be the norm. Mothers paid an amount based on CSA which is based not on what the child needs, but what the Dad earns and is the absolute minimum. And yet every father seems to take that as being ‘doing their fair share’.

And I’ve never complained to Ex. And yet I think, what are we doing as women, by just letting this happen? Why aren’t men paying half of the costs for their kids? Is this really common?

@DuchessMinnie that is just cruel. He’s being so insensitive. It’s like he doesn’t really care, that’s what his actions are saying. Your poor kids. Crikey it’s so lucky they have you.

@holidayhelpppp Just wait until it’s your turn. Don’t assume all cases are the same.

cats wait until its my turn?

gladly, DP clearly isn't bothered by paying maintenance, will by his track record give me the house for pennies and then see the kids whenever I let him, so I'm not worried.

Not only that but I work full time, can afford childcare on my own if I have to and having seen someone absolutely ruin their child first hand, I know exactly what NOT to do.

Don't try and be so smug assuming I know nothing. The reason I am SO prepared is because I have seen it first hand.

My dad left my mum with nothing and never paid her maintenance, I have always sworn I wouldn't leave myself in a vulnerable position and I haven't.

Also why do you assume that it will happen to me? Not all men are as bad or as useless as those mentioned upthread, you know.

PS its not me assuming all situations are the same, its me saying they're not.

@holiday so your Dad left your mum with nothing - is your mum men bashing, money grabbing or just a bitter first wife?

no, she went and got a job FT, trained and now earns quite a bit. She went on to have another child with someone nice. She wasn't bitter, she didn't try and turn me against him. In fact she never said a bad word about him to me, she always encouraged me to see him. She only actually told me the full situation when I turned 20 and she got a letter from the then CSA saying that they were going to write it all off.

Some women are bitter. I am glad my mum wasn't and I was allowed to form my own opinion of my dad without her influence.

Again, I haven't said that anyone on this thread is money grabbing. Can you quote where I have?

You are men bashing though.

I’m not saying it will happen but it could. It could happen to anyone and that’s why the whole issue of maintenance needs reviewing. I wonder what your motivation is in coming on here and bashing women in our situation.

@Missillusioned I agree there seems to be a lot of defensive putting down of women. So much so that even a child bought up with a father who paid no maintenance would rather defend the exes role in our circumstances, and call any woman who dares complain a man basher. Very sad really.

I think most of us seem balanced enough. I haven’t read a single post on here that seems to be from a single mother who is just out to get her Ex, or who appears lazy in any way. And yet the majority of us are paid way under our child’s costs, and the majority of us are making the best of it and plugging the financially and emotional gap out of our own pockets quietly without huge fuss.

Like they say in therapy, I think that the first step is society recognising this as a problem. My Ex holds his head up high and everybody thinks he’s fantastic. I am on the other hand, vilified. I think that I could bear it more if he had some awareness and I was acknowledged.

cats yes, I know it could, which Is why I am prepared.

My motivation?

well considering I have seen it from both sides, I think I should be allowed an opinion, don't you?

Unless this thread is exclusively just a bitching space for the ex wives club dressed up as a discussion about what maintenance covers?

in which case, title it as such and I will gladly stay away.

I have already said that the CMS is flawed, and that it needs to change, but you have obviously purposely ignored that and thought youd have a little smug dig at me for no reason.

Its like you're annoyed that I am prepared for being in a shit situation.

longlongsummer

can you quote where I have defended any of your exs on here?

I get £30 pm if I'm lucky !!

I haven't called any woman who complains a men basher, I have said that you personally are doing that, which you are.

if you get no maintenance by all means complain about YOUR EX and the CMS being shit. Fine, but that doesn't mean all men are like that, and all single mothers are angels.

@holidayhelpppp well I could, for the third time, lift your quotes about ‘money grabbers’ and mums who get the kids should just suck it up and pay. I’m sad that you big up your mum being silent and not fighting to get your dad to pay his fair share. Do you feel no anger at your Dad?Your points are all about your feelings about your DPs Ex, which is clear now. And don’t be too sure you won’t ever be in the same boat. And even if you are so clever that you wouldn’t, why put other women down? Makes no sense.

We are not all your DPs Ex.

This derails a lot of good points though.

You are free to try and pick out where I have said all men are awful and all woman are angels. Clearly some women like yourself are more invested in defending men who pay less than their fair share for their own kids, than the men themselves.

I honestly don’t know why me saying that MY Ex doesn’t pay half, which he clearly doesn’t, upsets you so much? And why you’ve covered half the thread with putting me down and anyone else down for saying that THEIR Exes aren’t paying enough either?

My kids dad pays me £60 per week for 2 kids and he's self employed doesn't pay tax or declare anything and some weeks he can earn £500+ but still gives me the same.
£30 per child 😂 don't know what he thinks that covers it costs me £30 per week just in fuel to and from school. He also doesn't have them over night or ever incase I go out meeting other blokes 🤦🏻‍♀️

@blissa1 I think that illustrates my point. We are made to feel lucky for even the smallest amount! That’s really tough on you. Must impact quite a bit. Sorry you have this. A lot worse than me.

longlongsummer I haven't said the words "money grabbers" once, sweetheart. The only person who keeps using that phrase, is you.

If your ex isn't going to pay maintenance, and the CMS cannot enforce it YOU HAVE NO CHOICE but to suck it up and pay. I have already said that its wrong, and the cms needs to change, but you have ignored that as it doesn't fit your narrative.

I’m sad that you big up your mum being silent and not fighting to get your dad to pay his fair share

Well, she, like many other RPs went to the CMS (because that's all you can do) and they chased him for money, and he quit jobs, moved house, went self employed and now hasn't worked for many years. Can you tell me what she should have done about that? Seeing as you are soooooo knowledgeable on my particular scenario?

Do you feel no anger at your Dad?

no, I don't waste my emotional energy on people like that. Where would anger get my at this point? I certainly learnt from my mums experience though, im grateful for that.

Your points are all about your feelings about your DPs Ex, which is clear now

no, but I have used her as an example of someone who presents themselves like you do, but actually (unlike you) is a total liar.

And don’t be too sure you won’t ever be in the same boat. And even if you are so clever that you wouldn’t, why put other women down? Makes no sense

I could end up a single parent, of course I could. I have never once said I couldn't. I suppose I could end up with a non paying dp, but the difference is I know i'd be financially OK. I have purposely worked after my child because of this.

I know you're not all DPs ex, I haven't said you are or even likened you to her. I have just used her as an example of how people will spin you a story that's not true. Its not as uncommon as you think, either.

It doesn't derail any points, and actually I have agreed with you about a lot of things, which funnily enough you have totally ignored.

You seem to only pick me up on the things you have fabricated that you don't agree with.

@teddy349 see you clearly fell for your DH sob story. Just be careful being so judgmental, he will be saying the same things about you too.

@brokenladyxx he sounds controlling too then. The focus all on him and not his kids welfare. Same with declaring the tax too, my Ex earns way above what he declares, and so gleefully tells people he’s paying the CMS amount (it’s lower actually). For my Ex this is a sign of how selfish he is though, he’s the first to complain about NHS or roads, and yet totally prepared not to pay the taxes for it. So society pays more for him, he expects me and the government to pay for his child.

no morally I don't think they should pay half the costs, because those costs may well be decided without any input from them, and so it would be incredibly unfair, and another way in which RPs can extort more money out of NRPS for their own benefit rather than the benefit of the child

I totally disagree with this.

long that's fine, you can disagree with it all you like, what you cant do is misquote it as "all women are money grabbers" because that isn't what I said is it?

@holidayhelpppp you think you are prepared because you have a good job and work full-time and can stand on your own two feel?? Ha! Think again. I could have said exactly the same. But you’re not factoring in the fact that in that case you will have to pay HIM a large settlement and have all the legal costs that will leave you short of cash, unless you are a multi-millionaire. Maintenance is a way of recouping a small proportion of all your costs. Don’t think you are bombproof or that this only happens to some other type of woman because that is not the case!

cats why will I have to pay him a large settlement? I don't earn more than him.

I wont have any costs to re coup, we have both already said that we wouldn't want to stay in the house we own together so we'd sell it and split it in half.

If that doesn't happen, and he fights for it, he can have it. I wouldn't want it.

Considering I (purposely) only have one child, I could go buy a 2 up 2 down terrace in the same area for DS's school for very cheap. We live in the North and so its not that hard to own by yourself here.

I am not sure why you seem to think you know all the ins and outs of my situation when you clearly don't?

all ive said is that I have maintained my financial independence!

@holiday you seem to be forgetting a child has two parents. Why should one not pay for their child or pay less than half their costs. That’s the point really. Whether the RP is a millionaire or a milkmaid the NRP should make a fair contribution. So often they get away with doing nothing!

cats sigh, no, I am well aware a child has two parents, and am pretty confident that even if we split DP would remain involved. I cant know for sure, obviously. All I was saying is that if he disappears and doesn't pay a penny, I am prepared for that and know me and DS will be ok.

I would go to the CMS like every other parent in that situation.

I haven't ONCE said that any parent should get away with doing nothing - can you actually quote where I have said that?

I have said CMS needs to change several times have you purposely ignored that or?

I don't think "half the costs" is a measurable sum, I think there should be some other method than a % of income, but I don't know what. Like I posted upthread (which again you prob ignored) there are so many variables that would need to be accounted for to get a fair outcome for everyone involved, but most importantly the child

the problem is, that how do you do that on such a big scale? Think how many people use CMS.

Someone absolutely DOES need to come up with a better way, but I don't think that will be any time soon.