Dads paying for childcare

[LadyTremaine]

Hello,

Just wondering how many of yor ex's contribute towards childcare on top of maintenance?

Without being rude, I'm not talking about the shitbags who don't pay anything a t all or who are generally crap. I mean the guys who pay their reccommended CSA maintencance relibly.

I only wonder because my ex seems to think that because he is not legally obiged to help with childcare, I am unfair to ask him to.

In my mind, we both work, so we should pay half each?

Why doesnt CSA take this is to any account grrr...

My DDs childcare bill is about £330 quid a month term time and £700 during school holidays. He pays me £200 maintencance, unfair, no?

The way I see it, the op and her ex agreed to have a child. At the time, they were both aware that they would both continue to work, and neither would be solely responsible for childcare, either in providing the actual care or in paying for it. The relationship has now ended, but the need for the care continues. Both of them continue to be responsible for the care, the desire/need for both parties to work has not changed. The op has suggested a 50/50 split in the physical care of the child, her ex has declined it, shoving 100% of the care responsibilities onto the op. Morally he should provide his half of the care, as he committed to when the child was born. However, this also places a moral responsibility on the op, to discuss any change in her finances with her ex in advance, much as she would if they were together.

However, it doesn't sound much like the ex is going to step up here - any father who turns down time with their child with no good cause is a pretty poor excuse for a father, and is not behaving morally towards their child. He is right about one thing though, with his attitude, the child is "better off" with the op!

As the wife of a man who is the resident parent of his children, I can assure you however that the CSA system is not sexist - male lone parents get shafted every bit as much as female ones! What is sexist however is a society that produces such a lot of men who think it is acceptable to walk away from their responsibilities. It should be completely socially unacceptable.

I kind of read this differently ... maybe I've got it wrong because we all bring our own views and baggage.

To me it sounds like maintenance is being paid to RP from the NRP. It's my opinion that this should cover the costs of the RP to be responsible for the children for the time which they spend with the RP.

While OP was single the government made an assessment that the RP could have additional help with childcare while they worked.

On changing circumstances by moving in with a boyfriend the govenment decides that RP no longer needs it's help with childcare costs.

OP doesn't agree with the assement of the govenment that the support provided by being in the relationship with partner is equal to the support provided by the govenment for childcare costs when she was single.

I can see the point if OP doesn't think the 15% maintance paid is enough for her to be responsible for her children, but I'm sure there's enough people getting alot less who some how have to struggle through.

I can see the point if OP doesn't think that the support provided by partner is equal to the loss in childcare support from the govenment. However, it maybe seem unfair for the govenment treating OP as married where basically everything in the partnership is shared. However, I don't see how the govenment could make any other assessment without having intimate knowlege of your relationship or penalising partners in your situation for getting married.

Finally the case of NRP not wanting to sort things out by changing access to be more 50/50, I think this is where mediation between OP and her ExP could be used to find a solution where both parties can agree on both access and finance.

I wonder why lawyers useually take childcare costs in to account during a divorce and demand half the costs to be paid by the father... but CSA does not tkae it in to account at all.

If OPS income is the same as her EX's and they both work full time.. why is she having to foot a £900 bill (£700 child care and £200 costs) and he a £300 (£200 maintenance and £100 costs)

Surely the CSA should be looking at this?

There's a lot of things the CSA should be looking at but I doubt if it will.

3/5 of Non Resident Parents do not pay any maintenance at all.

That shows how much responsibility we think absent parents should have.

The childcare is £700 in the holidays and £200 term time.

3 months@ £700 + 9 months @£200 = £3900.

That averages out at £325 a month.

Ok then, on an average month OPs costs are £525.. NRPs are £300... fair?

No, I don't think it's fair.

Though £200 from OP and £200 from the ex makes £400 to cover expenses for a 5 year old. That's rather a lot. There must be something left over to go towards the childcare cost.

Plus there's child benefit (though I did wonder if that would stop for the OP in April).

I think the other point that is being missed is that the woman is going to take care of the children and meets someone else is that not a bit off putting to a man? Im lucky I guess as DP does not mind we dont have as much money as ex partner and we are struggling at the moment but at the end of the day the 2 people who created the child are the ones who pay for it. I dont expect my ex husbands partner to pay for my son! its nothing to do with her. If they put both of their money into one pot thats their decission. Its mine and my ex partners DS. As for the child maint going towards the fees it would not touch it as well as clothes, shoes, food heating water....... you get the score. Nursery fees were £780 for my DS the 15% we get does not cover half of that!! I think the nursery's charge way too much and that is something that needs to be sorted by the gov. Where my son went it was a avarage of £800 per child the staff were on a low wage and they got no sick pay if off sick. So where was all the money going? There was about 100 kids there not bad each month.. say 40,000 for staff and food and heating ... another 15000 20000 profit 20K - 25k per month? Thats what needs sorting just like old peoples homes.... rip off!

Just another point, although I don't think OP is BU to expect XP to pay more to cover childcare costs, but if OP is getting CB at the eldest child rate, that amounts to almost £88 per month, that OP receives, not XP.

This means at the moment, XP is paying £300 per month out of his salary, and OP is actually paying £437 per month out of her salary.

This narrows the gap down further, although I accept that this is by no means half.

Does XP get any input into what childcare OP is using for DD, or any say in what OP is spending £400 a month on for their DD? I expect not

Also this calculation doesn't include any type of childcare vouchers. I do not know what I am talking about wrt childcare vouchers btw

The OP earns more than the ex though. Should that be taken into consideration? It appeared at the beginning that they earned the same but that was total household amounts (including both partners who aren't supposed to be expected to pay for their partner's children)

The OP did say later in the thread that her ex earns half what she does.

I was wondering about that ChocHobNob. I notice you mentioned that earlier and OP didn't come back to defend herself.

Where did she say that?

Not doubting you btw, just want to see it because I am nosey and cba scrolling through 163 posts.

sorry! Here I am! Havent been able to get on... I don't beleieve i ever said he earns half what i do... if I did it was over excited typo. He earns the same as me (actually 2k more but I'm not arguing over 2k)

Both our partners earn the same (low 40ks) maybe I said that my ex earns half what my dp earns?

I don't get child care vouchers at my work.

I do take4 on board your comment about the child benefits I receive (£80) and concede that this could be taken away from the total. However, the 'average' amount that you quote doesnt paint a realistic picture of what the costs actually look like because during Xmas/summer hols etc there is a large bulk payment... saying that, if he agreed to pay his half I'd happily take it spread across the year - no probs!

he has EVERY say in EVERY thing that is decided for our DD. I leave a voicemail followed by an email on every occassion and I either don't get a response, or I get 'I'll let you decide'

Apologies LadyTremaine, I must have misread or confused posts.

Well, as I have said before, YANBU to ask and expect your XP to pay more in CM to cover more of the costs of childcare, but realistically, if he chooses not to pay extra, I don't see how you can 'force' him to.

IMHO he should want to do everything he can to support his DD, but alas, some fathers are not this way inclined.

Cheers portaloo. That was always my question really, i was interested in others opions about whether i am right to expect him to make the moral judgement that he shouldbe paying this.
i also then thought it was worth debating why this isnt taken in to account by csa, particularly when lawyers nearly always do take it in to account.

But I think we've done full circle now and I do feel vindicated that despite int he beginning it felt like I was the only person in the world to be seeing sense - there are actually people out there that think men should be responsible for half their child's costs.

OK from my point of view CSA payments are different to devorse settlements. The CSA payment is specifically to allow the RP to care of the child, the CSA doesn't make any judgement on how this is done, stay at home, pay child-minders while RP works, get family to help with child-care.

While devorse settelements also take into account what the parents have accomplished as a team. Thinking of each parents carriers and expected earnings as the combined work of both parties. Therefore the lawyers should be trying to address the balance when one party comes away from the partnership as having a good carrier and a large income, or ablity to earn a large income, with maybe the other parent who may have been doing childcare and hence have no where near the same earning ability.

Therefore in such devorce cases the maintance paid is reflective of the contribution made to the main carrier in addition to correcting the earning power of the parties.

Or at leat I think that's how it works

This thread made my blood boil . OP I really feel for you and think I understand clearly what you are saying (I'm not sure why you've had to justify yourself so much!). I'm in a pretty similar position to you. My ex gives me minimum CSA and I wouldn't dream of asking him for a damn thing more. I love all this talk about mothers having the benefit of having the child and how men would love that opportunity. I'm sorry but that's not the case with all men - some are (well I'm too polite to say the word but it begins with C and ends in T and then an S :)) My ex doesn't want to see his son anymore than a couple of hours a week - he used to have him 10 overnights a month - for nearly 6 years - that's another story. I could go on but I can't be bothered. Of course the father should take responsibility for his child and of course he should help support you with additional costs but he won't. Do yourself a favour and accept he likely never will, it will save you a whole lot of stress. I'm dumbfounded by all these people who defend men who shirk responsibility for their children. Are you sure you only pay £700 during the holidays? Wow, that's a bargain! OP YADWNBU but that's only my opinion.

Tell you what bettiboo thats bang on there! Think you said it right! I hate the way they pick and choose when they see or should I say fit in their DC! I moved 1 1/2 hours away and was told I had ruined his relationship with his DS this was bull as he saw him just as much when I lived 5 mins away as he does now! Every other weekend. He calls very rarely once a week if that sometimes its once every 2 weeks. I miss my DS every other weekend I dont get how you can just not bother?

I'm sorry that's absolute maddness! I can't beleive anyone thinks its more the responsibilty of my boyfriend to pay for my daughters childcare than her own dad! I'm flabberghhasted!

so am I tbh !

Sorry to dig up old thread but just to say.... He's agreed to pay! Half of all child care plus maintenance.
He said that £125 extra a month each is more manageable than £250 for one preson (i.e. me) and so he felt it fair that he pays.. His mum with have our DD during th ehalf of the holidays that he would have to pay for.

Great news Lady, I only wish we all had such reasonable exP's. Congrats. :)

Thanks for the update and well done!

I wish so too saffronron

It has taken 4 years though!