Dads paying for childcare

[LadyTremaine]

Hello,

Just wondering how many of yor ex's contribute towards childcare on top of maintenance?

Without being rude, I'm not talking about the shitbags who don't pay anything a t all or who are generally crap. I mean the guys who pay their reccommended CSA maintencance relibly.

I only wonder because my ex seems to think that because he is not legally obiged to help with childcare, I am unfair to ask him to.

In my mind, we both work, so we should pay half each?

Why doesnt CSA take this is to any account grrr...

My DDs childcare bill is about £330 quid a month term time and £700 during school holidays. He pays me £200 maintencance, unfair, no?

[ChippingIn]

Falseme - LT's DP is contributing to all household expenses - except for childcare.

When he moved in she lost the benefits she got which contributed to the childcare. When her Ex's partner moved in, he didn't lose anything - that's how she is worse off and he isn't.

[BooBooGlass]

YOur partner is in a relationship with a resident parent. He is essentially her stepdad. He lives with you, spends time with you, and your dd spends the majority of time in your household. Yes, as a family unit, the responsibility falls to you two.

[LadyTremaine]

Just to reiterate.. I dont think she should pay - im just trying to understand the logic.

[ChippingIn]

LT - this could continue for pages and really it stops being about the OP after a while.

What I would do in your situation is write down the basics of what having DD costs and the childcare, then ask him to meet you to talk about things. Try to make him see that while his share contributes to her general 'up keep' it doesn't touch the childcare - ask him if he thinks it's fair that you are paying for all of her childcare while you work - remind him that you didn't sign up to be a SAHP when you had her with him and that you can't afford to be one now. That she is his daughter and needs to either take her 50% of the time OR stump up for 50% of childcare so you can work and support her 100% of the time!

[scaredoflove]

#1200? for one small child??? You are highly over estimating the costs a small child brings

Housing - you have housing costs with or without a child

Heating/water - your child maybe uses a little extra than you would as a single occupant but not a huge amount

Food - how much can a 5 year old eat?

#200 sounds very low if you are both earning similar amounts and you can afford 1200 on your daughter alone

What is 15% of your net wages? Also, you need to factor in that your living expenses are now halved due to you living with your partner

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

just seem so bleedingly complicated to keep the CSA contributions separate when you join finances with someone else

Hypothetical situation.

I'm (hypothetically) working 3 DS's, meet man with a child from a previous relationship and we move in together. We agree put our money into one pot to pay for the bills and then (for arguments sake) split what is left (if any ) for personal spending

I earn £1200 a month
Hypothetical man earns £1400

A total of £2600 (hmmm sounds nice )

He takes out his £200 for his child and puts £1200 into the pot as do I - £2400 in there.

We pay the bills and there's £50 left over - £25 each to fritter away on what ever we feel like

or

He puts in all the money to start with - still a total of £2600 in the pot. Bills are paid (including the CSA) and we're still left with £50 to fritter away.

Surely it makes no difference at all??

[ChippingIn]

BooBoo - WHY why should all of the financial responsibility fall on the shoulders of the RP? He doesn't want to share care and doesn't want to share childcare costs. Why should it all fall on LT to do everything because he doesn't want to - HE is JUST as responsible for her being in the world as the OP is?!

[falsemessageoflethargy]

But you do have the benefit of your dd with you - would you rather it was the other way around?

And I suppose its a cautionary tale about the NR not having any 'school' days as well - this is going to be really expensive during the hols unles it is sorted out.

We divvy up the holidays and then whoever has that week is responsible for the childcare and then its their choice whetehr they use gps or supercamps etc.

If the new dp is contributing to all the household then surely the OP has a lot more money for childcare? I always paid the childcare anyway and so was used to the cost and exdh paid the mortgage. Am aware this isnt normal though.

[megapixels]

YANBU OP, I can't believe that people are saying that the father need not pay 50% and the stepdad needs to pick up the tab. Good on the guy on page 1 who said that he'd be mortified if some other man was paying for his children, that's how any self-respecting man would think.

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

"When he moved in she lost the benefits she got which contributed to the childcare. When her Ex's partner moved in, he didn't lose anything - that's how she is worse off and he isn't."

But she's not - she's got a DP to split the bills with who also has an income - so she's better off

If they were on lower wages they would get help with the childcare still.


But scaredoflove "how much can a 5 year old eat"............I wish I could have lent you DS2 when he was 5 they can put away a staggering amount of food if they're of the large appetite variety.

[BooBooGlass]

Baroque understands. I really don't htink this is abou tthe childcare issue, though that clearly bothers you. I think the real issue here is that your partner does not want to take on the financial implications of your child.
The reason that you as the resident parent are responsible for the costs is purely as you are the one with the child. You recieve child benefit, tax credits, and the majority of the time with your child. I agree with whoever asked why you are singling out the cost of childcare as opposed to all the other childrelated costs? If you were in his shoes, would you pay?

[ChippingIn]

15% of a NRP wage is pathetic and that is where the problem lies. Children don't cost a % of your income, they cost what they cost. The RP has to pick up all of the slack - which is crap. Childcare is a huge cost - why does the NRP get to escape without paying towards this?

[ChippingIn]

False - yes the OP has the benefit of her DD living with her, she also has the 24/6 responsibility for her. Enjoyment doesn't pay the bills.

Baroque - her EX also has a partner who shares in paying the bills. OP & Ex both pay roughly 50% of the cost of having their DD except for childcare - so not only does he dodge the responsibility of looking after her he dodges the cost of childcare.

[Takeresponsibility]

Chipping in ?

1. Why LT and her ex split up has no relevance to the finances, he may have been unfaithful, she may have got pregnant without discussing it with him and then made him sleep on the sofa for 18 months before he got fed up and started another relationship. We don?t know, we don?t need to know it is irrelevant when it comes to finances.
   
2. The father?s child IS paying what he has to pay, it was LTs assumption that he would help with childcare costs that have caused the debate, not anything that the father has done to shirk or avoid his responsibilities. I think most men when faced with the scenario ?I?m moving in with my boyfriend who earns twice your wage so I will lose out on benefits and help with childcare. You therefore need to help me make up the shortfall, even though I am the one who will be better off not you? would probably politely decline to help.
   
3. The OPs CSA did not decrease when her new partner moved in, nor would it increase when the ex?s NP moved in. CSA is based on a percentage of the NRPs pay not on what either the NRP or the PWCs new partners earn (don?t get me started on tax credits of new wives going to first wives or we will be here forever)
   
4. No, I do not expect a lone parent to remain single and on benefits for ever, but every person whether parent or childless, on benefit or working has to look at their own circumstances before they start a new venture. Whether it be moving in with a partner, changing jobs, taking a year out to dig wells in Africa people have to take responsibility for their own choices.

[falsemessageoflethargy]

I think ChippingIn although I can see in this case it is a problem - mostly (sadly) women who are left in this situation are earning under the threshold for childcare tax credits and so are helped out - granted you are still slightly worse off but not to this extent.

And when you are in a new relationship that is serious enough that moving in has occured then you need to move towards a shared cost of everything again.

I dont see the childcare costs as something related to ds anyway - I see them as something for me - something that enables my career and future earnings and pension - not really for ds at all. What would happen if ex contributed to your career and pension and bonus etc through the childcare - would he then be entitled to some of it - or would that all be kept - it has implications.

[LadyTremaine]

Takeresponsibility The TC I received when i was single paid the childcare cost minus £120 which i covered. So no, I didn't give him a percentage of this as it meant with the £200 he gave me after I had paid childcare I had £80 from him for everything else... also, it is true that since his partner has moved in I have felt less guilt towards how he may be managing with his money. That is because he now has a partner to pay half the rent etc as do I and so i feel even more strongly that he is in a position to pay his way.

scaredoflove £700 of that is childcare costs. we have to have an extra room for DD which my ex doesnt have to have and round here an extra room costs a lot more. Her school lunchs alone are £40 then there's clothes/friends birthday presents/PE kit/food at weekends... I don't think my estimates are too high.

falsemessageoflethargy of course I wouldnt prefer it the other way around. But he has been given the option of sharing the care evenly and he didnt take it. "We divvy up the holidays and then whoever has that week is responsible for the childcare and then its their choice whetehr they use gps or supercamps etc." this is what i am suggesting for this summer but it's fallen on deaf ears!

chippingin Thanks for bringing this back ,your advice is sound and i will follow. I doubt it will change his mind but it might help me get some of this off my chest.

DP and I don't have joint bank accounts by the way. he pays a higher percentage of rent/bills because he earns more. he pays a lot (600) CM to his ex and we both end up with the same spends at the end of the month. (I put away money each month to cover the childcare costs that occur during school holidays)

[OkayGrrl]

You could always have split custody with your ex, therefore you would only have to pay childcare for when you have her and he would pay for when he has her.

[LadyTremaine]

booboo I have said that my paartner pays 2/3s of all rent and bills in the house that me and my DD live in with him.. he also pays for family outings and luxuries... in what way is this "your partner does not want to take on the financial implications of your child."

he already pays £600 to his ex for his child whom actually lives with us 4 days a week... where is the money for MY DDS childcare supposed to come from exactly..??

[BooBooGlass]

' he now has a partner to pay half the rent etc as do I and so i feel even more strongly that he is in a position to pay his way.'

The exact same can be said of you.

ANd how, if you all earn the same, does your partner pay 3 times what your ex pays in maintenance??

[Firepile]

Thank you Chipping. Completely agree. I think we need to challenge a lot of the assumptions on this thread.

[BooBooGlass]

If his child lives with you 4 days a week, and your dc requires childcare to allow you to work, who pays childcare for this one?

[LadyTremaine]

okaygrrl ve said a couple of times i have offered him this as an alternative to paying me even a penny but he says she's better of with me.

[ChippingIn]

Takeresponsibility

1. It is relevant when you are saying that she chose to change her single status to that of being in a relationship. Why should she stay single - he hasn't. Why should she be the one to suffer financially for not staying single. He hasn't.
   

1. The debate is not about what the Govt says he should pay, no one is denying he is meeting his legal obligation. We are debating his moral obligation and what his legal obligation should be.
   

1. I never said anything about CSA changing so not sure what you are on about here.
   

1. Yes they do - what I am saying is that he didn't have to consider staying single to afford childcare why should she?

[LadyTremaine]

booboo The same could be said of me yes - but I do pay my way!!!

My ex doesnt earn the same as my DP - he earns about half. I earn the same as my ex and his new partner earns the same as my new partner. same household income but maintenance calculated off the men's salaries so more goes out of our family pot on maintenance than comes in.

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

sorry but I think that if he was paying money for his own child from a previous relationship this is something you should have thought of before you moved in together as a family

It doesn't matter what way you do the maths - the money left over to put toowards the other household bills will be the same.

And how would you feel if his ex moved in with someone and the demanded more money for childcare thus leaving him less to contribute to your household bills??? Citing "well he's living with his GF now who is also working so they have more money??)

Moving in together (regardless of children) needs to be planned for finances implications. Financial commitments that are in place need to be considered imo - and planned for.