Dads paying for childcare

[LadyTremaine]

Hello,

Just wondering how many of yor ex's contribute towards childcare on top of maintenance?

Without being rude, I'm not talking about the shitbags who don't pay anything a t all or who are generally crap. I mean the guys who pay their reccommended CSA maintencance relibly.

I only wonder because my ex seems to think that because he is not legally obiged to help with childcare, I am unfair to ask him to.

In my mind, we both work, so we should pay half each?

Why doesnt CSA take this is to any account grrr...

My DDs childcare bill is about £330 quid a month term time and £700 during school holidays. He pays me £200 maintencance, unfair, no?

[ChippingIn]

Falseme re your post at 17.43. The thing is, for the OP to be on an equal footing with her EX (ie to go to work to maintain her career or whatever) she has to pay childcare, he does not - basically another way in which the RP suffers while the NRP doesn't even have to give it a thought. Why would him paying half of the childcare costs be him contributing to your pension etc - do you consider being his unpaid childcare a contribution to his pension and what do you get out of that??

[OkayGrrl]

Have you tried getting his child support recalculated? £200 doesn't seem much for the wage you've given.

I think he should offer to help with child care costs but you can't enforce it in any way and if he doesn't want to then that's the unfortunate answer.

[ChippingIn]

OK

Would this simplify things a bit.

Couple has a child
They separate
They live in identical houses with identical costs
The earn an identical amount of money

The NRP pays 15 % (say £200) of their income to the RP.

The NRP works, stays in same job has no childcare costs.

The RP has childcare costs of £200 to stay in the same job.

Who then is paying for the general costs of the child

[BooBooGlass]

You're forgetting child benefit and child tax credit.
But it's not that simple. It will never be an equally shared thing while one has the majority of time with the child.

[falsemessageoflethargy]

Well yes while you are together and not working or working pt or even working fulltime and you divorce then yes you are entitled to some of his pension. If you are a sahm then you have enabled his working. If he pays some of your childcare costs then surely he has enabled your working in the same way.

LT only has to pay childcare because she has her dd during all of the working week and frankly she has allowed her ex to get away with not doing any of the childcare at all - its a cautionary tale but maybe not in the way that you think.

If he doesnt want any part of dds care apart from one paltry day then it is his relationship with her that will suffer in the end - and that doesnt put money in your pocket or help with the sadness of that but he will pay for these decisions eventually.

[ChippingIn]

No I'm not, I said earlier he should pay half less any child benefits the RP gets.

[scaredoflove]

I have 4 young adults living with me, I only earn 1300! I can assure everyone they eat far more than a 5 year old could

You need to add up your daughters actual costs, I can't see how one child costs 1000 before childcare costs are even considered (1200 - 700 = 500 - so you are saying your 500 and his(ex) 500 comes to 1000)

[ChippingIn]

BooBoo - why do you accept that as being OK. It should be that simple the RP also has all of the responsibility, why should it cost them more financially as well? Both parents brought this child into the world, they should both pay for the upkeep of that child. He has been offered 50% shared care but he doesn't want it.

[ChippingIn]

Falseme - yes that's true, his relationship with his DD will suffer and that's his lookout. A RP cannot make a parent do 'shared care' - but they should be able to make them do shared childcare so that they can make the same work/career choices and not be forced into being a SAHP against their wishes or work and be significantly worse off than the NRP for making that decision.

[ChocHobNob]

Everyone seems to be assuming the OPs ex earns the same as her, as that's the impression given at first, but he actually earns half of what the OP does. Does that make any difference to the "child care coss should be split 50/50"?

[StellaBrillante]

Hi lady,

Childcare aside, how do you split general household bills & expenses? Do you divide it by 3 and you pick up 2/3 of it?

I was in a similar situation to yours after I separated from xh. He had committed himself to continue paying for 1/2 of ds' nursery fees but I never saw his 1/2 of it. I eventually started a long-term relationship with somebody else and he was happy to pick up a lot of the childcare & school fees expenses but that doesn't mean that I thought it was right. It's the father who is thinking that he's got away with not having to pull his wallet out and picking and chosing when to show his face. One thing that used to infuriate me is the 'parental responsibility' crap. It's all about parental rights as opposed to responsibility: right to be a lousy parent, right to let child and other parent down, right to make ex's life hell and create all sorts of obstacles if they chose to. But responsibility to pay for 1/2 of the expenses, cover holidays and school runs, show their faces when there is a problem or at parents' evening? Oh no, no such a thing.
All in all, it really depends on the arrangement that you have with your partner and how comfortable you are with it all but ultimately, it's my opinion that the father needs to step up to the mark. It's his child for goodness sake!

[ChippingIn]

Stella - she has already answered that, he pays 2/3 rds of household expenses and pays for days out, treats for both the girls and them etc.

[TotemPole]

remind him that you didn't sign up to be a SAHP when you had her with him and that you can't afford to be one now. That she is his daughter and needs to either take her 50% of the time OR stump up for 50% of childcare so you can work and support her 100% of the time!

I agree with most of that.

They decided together to have a baby. Her giving up work wasn't discussed at the time. I don't see why the OP should pay all the childcare costs.

Her current partner is already paying towards his own child & household expenses. It's the ex's responsibility to pay for his daughter.

But I'm not sure I'd agree with 50%. It's complicated. His household expenses must have decreased since his new partner moved in. But paying half could mean his new partner has to pay more than a fair share in their household which, in effect, puts her in a position of paying unfairly towards the OP's daughter's childcare.

LadyTremaine are there any cheaper childcare options such as after school and holiday play schemes?

[falsemessageoflethargy]

LT - is there any chance of you having your ex's children round more so lessening the payment going out from your ex - and of course you having more time together as a family?

[hairyfairylights]

He pays maintenance to cover his share of all costs, that includes childcare.

[Scruffyhound]

Im sorry to hear such negative feedback from some people on here LadyTremaine if you wanted a child and you both wanted the child weather its IVF, natural, gay, lesbian or whatever there are normally two people responsible for the child that has been created. Help from the gov a side two people decided on that life and those same two people should be the ones to sort it out be it financial and support for whatever they need. If like me you split up and find someone else then that person should not be expected to pay towards my child I created with someone else. That is just stupid! My DP and I never ask for anything off the ex as he is crap. I have had to ask him to buy DS some shoes once my DS is now 5 and we have been spilt for 3yrs. He has never had to pay towards any other costs I always have paid for my DS. He thinks he pays too much and when we first split gave me £50 a month and brought DS nothing. Concidering I took a lower paid job whilst living with the husband to allow him time for his job (as he earned more money than me) I was in a decent job before but took a job more local to be near my DS in case of illness so husband could keep job. So now 3 yrs later I have to apply and start again and work my way up again and the ex still has his job and a new partner to share the money with from his job that I helped keep going by taking a pay cut. Not to mention all the time I had to have off whilst DS was not well at nursery and when I asked one time for the Ex husband to look after DS he said he was busy at work (I later found out he was on holiday) I was getting a warning from work for having time off!! WTF!! And now he is having another child with his partner he cant even look after our DS!! Its a joke. Some men and I have seen women do it to need to learn if your going to have a child you need to take care of the child in all aspects.

[portaloo]

ScruffyHound 'And now he is having another child with his partner he cant even look after our DS!!'

It still amazes me why any woman would want to have DC with a man she knows doesn't already support the DC he has. Do these women truly believe he will be any better as a father with her DC?

[ChippingIn]

HairyTriangle - that's so convenient isn't it - I mean, fancy that, all children cost 15% of the NRP's wages - amazing.

[portaloo]

ChippingIn I suppose the CSA have to set a percentage somewhere, even if it's not ideal for many RP's.

Isn't 15% the minimum for one DC anyway? There's nothing to stop the NRP paying more if they want to/are able to.

[secretskillrelationships]

This thread raises two issues for me.

1. There has been much talk about who should be covering the childcare costs but no-one has challenged the idea that it's okay for the state to pick up the cost for single parents. It simply wouldn't have been an option while these two people were together and they would have jointly met the cost. Why does that change when they separate?
   

1. The relative costs of raising DCs. I think this is a very difficult one to calculate. We had a very good income and rented our house based on that income. It costs more that I earn and around £1000 a month more than I could rent somewhere for if I was by myself. If my ex was still working, maintenance would not even cover the difference in rent. So costs are very specific to circumstances.

[ChippingIn]

Portaloo - I know - I was responding to hairytriangle saying 'he's paid his maintenance to cover all costs' - it's ridiculous - 15% of £90,000 great, 15% of £19,000 not so great. It's not like you can go to a childminder and say I'll pay you a %age of your fee is it.

As far as I'm concerned the CSA 15% should cover food, roof over head/power etc all things increased by having DC and basic clothes etc. Things like School uniform, class trips etc the NRP should contribute towards in addition to the CSA. Childcare costs should be split enabling both parents to work should they wish.

[Steepedinalcohol]

I thought the childcare element of WTC was income based, and available to couples as well as single parents.

In principle I agree that the NRP should help towards the costs. I am the sole provider for dd as xh is refusing to pay maintenance - yet he can work full-time and overtime and therefore has the potential to increase his income. My income is restricted as I have to work fewer hours and pay for childcare.

Ironically when I was with him I paid my dsd's maintenance and for any holiday clubs she went to while she was with us.

.

[hairyfairylights]

not saying it's convenient at all but that's how it works. Just trying to answer the op.

[Scruffyhound]

Im afraid I have come to the conculsion that if you have no penis your life will change when you have kids. Before you know it you have a baby and its your issue. Maybe Im just bitter and coming from divorced parents and divorced my self?! However saying that my mum had to leave when I was 16 (and I lived with my dad for a while) he tried to turn me against my mum but he was an idiot and I know why mum left so I know women can leave. My mum refused to pay child maintinance as dad had been out of work and was not bothered about getting a job for years mum always worked and paid for everything. She ran the house and worked she had enough and left but mum always made sure I was ok she gave me money direct and nothing to my dad to get him off his arse and working. So there are situations where I can understand. But in general people I have spoken to and most divorced the woman has to take a step back in her career to make way for the man to keep his job up and he is normally the top earner. So in a relationship where your together and think its for the long term and you make these choices for what you think is for the best only to split up who is ok in the end the person who kept their job and only has to pay 15%! Its wrong. I want a job but with childcare costs of £1140 per month on the way thats for my DS and baby full time I dont know if a wage would even cover it?! I want to work and enjoy my work but its crazy! This is where the help from EX husband would be nice to cover half of the fees for our DS (about 400 per month) my baby is with my DP so that is mine and DPs issue to sort out. However me and DP will pay all of it. But then all as Ex husband will have to pay for is his nursery fees for his baby and £250 maintinance per month. Lucky man I say. And a silly woman who wants to have a child with someone who cant look after his DS well enough!!

[Scruffyhound]

portaloo I think partner involved is at the age where she wants kids and is desperate to have them. I really liked her at first but she is a control freak and used to answer text messages I sent to ex husband about our DS nothing to do with her. So now I have to be careful how many texts I send and I really dont like her for that its too much. So I think thats why she is having a child with ex husband to stamp out hes mine kinda thing? She is very welcome to have him!