DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

Agreed.

And explain to her that the law does not allow her leeway in which toilets she uses.

It seems very weird to me, almost as though written by someone who knows little about how these things work.

It can be seen as criminal if the situation got too intimate, on the basis there was no informed consent from the ‘ignorant’ person.

Does she watch any TV with you? I've been binging on Celebs Go Dating - Christine McGuiness was on there and says she's always had both girlfriends and boyfriends but since her divorce she's only wanted to be with a woman. She likes women with masculine energy - it was interesting hearing her talk about what she liked about being with women and the type of woman she wanted. There was absolutely no question that the most butch woman was still female. Would your daughter watch something like that?

The OP explained many times that the father completed the forms and ticked the "male" box.

Again ? Another person totally confused between sexuality and gender . A masc presenting lesbian is NOT a trans man. Please educate yourself .

Also a secondary teacher. Yes, you should speak to the school about your son. It will give them a really good indication of the difficulties he faces at home and they'll be better placed to support him.

It is likely that there will be multiple overnight trips with shared room accomodation (often hostel dormitory style with no changing rooms per se) for many a-level courses.

Before my a-levels I didn’t foresee the multiple overnight stays the other side of the country I would have for biology a-level for example, let alone the optional overseas week long trips that I went on with 6th form.

There may be boys at the school who for their own reasons
in addition to the school's legal obligations
need single sex spaces

it is a gross invasion of their rights for a lying girl to enter that space

Daughter.

I appreciate what you’re trying to say but they are absolutely not the same thing. Masc lesbians have a same sex attraction and dress and act in a way that society deems more masculine . Trans men are men who were born biologically female and may be straight or gay .

Well the OP has to consider her other child's feelings and sense of identity too.

One sibling comes out as trans = massive impact on the other kids.

I always describe it as a grenade being thrown into a family because identity is relational and as part of a group as well as individual.

Thus a son, suddenly being told they aren't the only son, can have a significant psychological impact - they may feel their sister is trying to compete or copy them in some way. They may be feelings of 'being replaced' or 'usurped'. Or just generally wondering why they are trying to look like them.

Of course in an affirmation only family, a sibling can't explore these feelings 'because transphobia' and thus are told their feelings aren't valid, leading to resolved issues and being treated as secondary to their siblings transitioning.

Transitioning is never a neutral act. It has a MASSIVE impact on all. But we aren't allowed to talk about this, because it might upset one group of people.

The OP needs to make sure she doesn't forget this impact on the sibling. Its ok for the sibling to have ANY feelings they like and they should be validated too. Because they are ALLOWED to - they are ALLOWED to be gender critical if they wish without being labelled as unsupportive or transphobic. It may put a parent in an extremely difficult position walking a tightrope between the siblings but if she's treating them equally and fairly they don't have a choice.

Her Child should gone through counselling before making these life changing decisions. It is very sad for both sides. Thinking of you OP.

Not any more, in the UK at least.

The problem is that, for a decade, deceit around this issue was encouraged, and children discoraged from recognising biological reality.

Otherwise DD and DH in this thread wouldn't be where they are.

Fucking hell.

Do you affirm anorexics as well ?

@MrsBunTheBakersMum what a load of rubbish. Sorry, I know your feelings are about your child, but even so.

As the parent of both male and female children I can honestly say I love them both equally and apart from dealing with the obvious biological differences there is very little that I do differently in terms of parenting. They have been introduced to the same wide range of activities, their friends both male and female have been welcomed into our home, and they both have to pitch in with the full range of household chores.

Maybe we’re lucky because they’re happy enough with their respective natal sex for it not to be an issue. But even if it was I’d be encouraging them to accept it, embrace it, and concentrate on working things that they can change if they want to (e.g. appearance, friendships, skills, hobbies, career choices), rather than what they cannot (e.g. their sex, other people’s perceptions, other people’s speech).

Trans men are not men, they are trans men. Trans men are not a subset of men, they are a subset of women.

There is a big difference between trans men and men, including legally, despite some people deluding themselves otherwise.

Yeah it’s funny how giving birth to a baby girl will manifest in ‘denial’ when as a teenager that female child you’ve raised from birth suddenly announces that they’re not a girl. Funny how material reality works like that. 🙄

You told the ultrasound people they were wrong?

That apple didn't fall far from the tree.

For the purposes of the Equality Act and Health and Safety considerations, transmen are female, because they are.

Sorry, we can't avoid acknowledging this reality. It affects others and others may have duty of care responsibilities where this is also relevant.

On a basic level, and I’m sure others have made this point (I’m really sorry I haven’t had time to read the full thread); but the school needs to know her true sex for safeguarding reasons and because she’s a minor. But as a private school, you will also have an expensive financial contract with them too.

If she and you were to allow her to pose as a boy, they could ask her to leave if they find out you have put them in a legal bind by not telling them. Schools’ legal and statutory compliance requirements around safeguarding minors are no joke, and are taken very seriously. A state sixth form could ask her to leave too; but you’d probably have more chance of persuading them not to, and you wouldn’t be left out of pocket. But a private school can and will just remove a place if you have misled the school — and you’ll probably also still have to pay an additional 1-2 terms’ fees, as you will have a financial contract with them to do this. I’ve been a school governor at both state and private schools, and the private schools can be very ruthless in asking kids who are problematic for them in any way to leave; and they really don’t let you off the hook of paying 2+ fees for any terms where you haven’t observed the notice period in your fee agreement.

So: be very careful doing anything that the school could regard as fraud / identity fraud / any kind of duplicity. You could get in very hot water and end up not only paying out a large amount of fees you’re tied into, but also not actually having a school place for your DC who would then have to restart all her A-levels at another school.

You do, I think, need to point out to her that the school’s statutory duties are not negotiable, and they will need to know her true sex. If she can’t appreciate that, it isn’t a good sign, given that eventually people will just find out/twig anyway; and then they will not be happy about being deceived. And she will find quite quickly that teachers/parents/students will have connections at her previous school not matter how smart it is — there is always someone who knows someone — and to be honest in any case she is really unlikely to pass for long, if at all.

Good luck OP 💐 It’s a tough situation.

Transmen aren't just 'born' biologically female, they remain biologically female.

The OP has asked for support here, so I think it's inappropriate to call her prejudiced just because there are things she doesn't understand.

The OP has said that her husband and daughter completed the application forms and the daughter put her sex as male, so she does seem to be trying to hide the fact that she is female.

If younger people (and schools) are so understanding about 'trans', why is she trying to hide her sex from them? They'd presumably be very accepting of her as a 'transboy'.

Surely the OP is supporting her child by paying her school fees and showing concern about her wellbeing. Giving in to teenage whims isn't the only way to support a child, and not always the best way. Some grounding in reality is also important.