Binding

[hartof]

My DD who is currently 14, told us in June 2020 she thought she was transgender. She had always been a "tomboy" we let her dress how she wanted. At the time I said nothing needed ti change as she can make herself look however she wants but we would t change anything hormonally until she was older.

She has never asked us to call her by another name, or refer to her as they or him.
She had her hair cut short later that year and last year we found a great barber who takes it shorter and makes her look amazing.

On Sunday she sent me a link to a binding bra, I don't know if I should say yes or no. I have no idea how it will affect her, but at this point I'm sure it's not a phase and this is how she sees herself. Any advice is dearly received.

( she/we have had no counselling she gets uncomfortable when I ask her questions ie when people have referred to her as male I asked if it bothers her and she won't answer me)

I gave you something to look up. Do so, don't be lazy.

Because sex and gender aren't the same thing. Look up "Transracial: revisited" on Youtube.

Can you expand on this please? I don't understand what you mean. Also there are a couple of other questions upthread that I would also appreciate an answer to.

@Iambecomethequeen

I gave you something to look up. Do so, don't be lazy.

So you can’t actually explain it. Got it.

@Iambecomethequeen

I gave you something to look up. Do so, don't be lazy.

Could you provide some actual academic discourse and peer reviewed sources rather than a random you tube clip.

We're quite keen on proper evidence here!

"We're quite keen on proper evidence here!" This is hilarious. I mean, there's no peer reviewed sources about transracial people to my knowledge, but there are about trans people. Which means transphobes generally go against science in a lot of ways.

Just for an example, someone claimed gender dysphoria is caused by trauma.

Yes, it can be. It is a long-recognised response in some people to, for example, sexual trauma or child sexual abuse. (Which does not mean that all gender “dysphoria” is caused by this.)

You need to inform and educate yourself a lot more and beyond the standard youth social media. I can suggest, first of all, reading the interim Cass report upthread. It is important to learn about how ideas of gender and sexuality have changed over time. The current social construction of “transgender” did not exist in its current form twenty years ago; and likely will not do so in the same form in twenty years’ time.

Some proper reading around histories of feminism, sexuality, medicine, psychiatry and identity politics will be much better for understanding this than anything on Twitter, Tumblr or YouTube.

@Iambecomethequeen

"We're quite keen on proper evidence here!" This is hilarious. I mean, there's no peer reviewed sources about transracial people to my knowledge, but there are about trans people. Which means transphobes generally go against science in a lot of ways.

You’re still not actually explaining anything.

I have looked up that video you suggested, it doesn't cover the question that was asked.

What peer reviewed sources are there about transgenderism, I would like to read them? I have read a few studies, eg. The study about brains, so would appreciate any more that you can link.

@Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople

Because sex and gender aren't the same thing. Look up "Transracial: revisited" on Youtube.

Can you expand on this please? I don't understand what you mean. Also there are a couple of other questions upthread that I would also appreciate an answer to.

Whoops, typo. Meant to write that RACE and gender aren't the same thing.

Anyways, gender and sex are different. As known by doctors already.
Sex is a binary category used in biology to describe APPROXIMATELY the variation of a few connected characteristics in human beings. Sex is bimodal, so most people are either male or female, but there are outliers (more than people generally assume). Sex can further be divided in many categories, but we're already at a level of complexity too high for most transphobes, who are stuck at elementary school biology.
I'll talk about gender in a coming comment.

Sorry OP for staying slightly off topic but I just wanted to say to @Iambecomethequeen that anorexia is absolutely not easily sorted with therapy! Sadly it has a very high death toll.

I believe the death rates for anorexia are far higher than for people with gender dysphoria.

I think sometimes an important point is overlooked and that is that many mental health problems prove to be treatment resistant. I believe gender dysphoria is no exception as suicide, self harm and patterns of criminality tend to stay the same after medical and social transition - showing that it isn't a panacea.

That ought to be a big consideration when starting a treatment we know is harmful. Sometimes a harmful treatment is worth it, like if you have a cancer it may be worth chemo or losing a lung because it had been shown it extends life.

My worry is that puberty blockers and hormones are known to be harmful but not known to get good results. A further complication is some doctors giving the meds out are answering very serious allegations about their actions. Do have a look at the evidence of you have chance, please. These don't seem to be conscientious people.

@Iambecomethequeen - way to combine insults with teaching your grandmother to suck eggs!

We all know that sex and gender are different things here, love. You can give up the teenage comments about “transphobes”. Most women here have many years of knowledge and experience that you are lacking as yet. If you listen rather than rehearse platitudes, you will learn a lot more than you think.

Sex is bimodal, so most people are either male or female, but there are outliers (more than people generally assume)

I'm glad you acknowledge that. Just to correct though - ALL people are either M or F. A very small number are incorrectly identified. But there is no third sex, and all DSD's are sex specific.

Sex can further be divided in many categories, but we're already at a level of complexity too high for most transphobes, who are stuck at elementary school biology.

You don’t half talk shite 😂

@Iambecomethequeen sex is binary - there is no 'third sex' or 'third gamete'. People with DSDs are still either male or female and are not evidence that sex is not binary. However, people with DSDs are nothing to do with transgenderism anyway, as that is about inner feelings, and not to do with physical chromosomal makeup. If you are a male, you cannot have any experience of what it is to be a female.

If anything, race is much more ambiguous, although it would of course be very offensive if I coloured my skin dark, took on other stereotypes associated with black people and then claimed to actually be black.

Gender is a term used to mean many things. The most important difference is between gender identity and cultural gender.

Cultural gender is the things people culturally associate to a certain sex. This can mean a gender role("females should be the caretakers"), a gendered presentation ("Skirts are for girls, except kilts"), or an stereotype ("You're a male, so you must like sports"). This also includes language: "You have boobs, so you must use she/her pronouns".
Of course, when these associations are turned into coercive prescriptive statements, it's a bad thing. You can be a male and a caretaker, you can wear cargo pants as a female, you canvbe female and use he/him pronouns.

Gender identity, on the other hand, is an a complex aggregation of internal feelings relating to both sex and cultural gender. For example "I don't like being labeled as a woman", "I feel uncomfortable with my penis" etc.

Now, since cis people don't experience dysphoria, they may wonder what trans people mean when they say they "feel" like a certain gender. If you're interested, I can give some insight into what that means.

If sex can be divided into loads of categories, how come I had to do all of the pregnancy, giving birth, breastfeeding and all of that all 3 times? Couldn't my husband have picked up the slack at least once?

"suicide, self harm and patterns of criminality tend to stay the same after medical and social transition"
What are you on about? Transition has absolutely shown to increase the well being of trans people, that's why it's the accepted treatment for dysphoria.

Now, since cis people don't experience dysphoria, they may wonder what trans people mean when they say they "feel" like a certain gender. If you're interested, I can give some insight into what that means.

I am interested, and thank you for engaging.

What does it mean to have a 'female gender identity? What is that referring to, if not stereotypes? Surely it can only be What, as someone who has never been female, one perceives from the outside What it is to be female? And that can only be based on stereotypes about females? How can you know you are something that you can't possibly have any experience of?

In your position OP I would not allow breast binding.

I would suggest sports bras as others have said on the condition she agrees to some counselling sessions. Whilst you can’t force her to engage, getting her to agree to a course of sessions may mean at some point she does open up

I find it surprising that this has been going on since 2020, you say you don’t think it’s a phase and yet admit you haven’t done much research and know very little. Surely binding is the first logical step in making changes to a female body.

@Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople

If sex can be divided into loads of categories, how come I had to do all of the pregnancy, giving birth, breastfeeding and all of that all 3 times? Couldn't my husband have picked up the slack at least once?

Bimodal means most people fall into one of 2 options. Also, the many categories are chromosomal, gonadal, hormonal, exterior and neurological sex.

@Iambecomethequeen

"suicide, self harm and patterns of criminality tend to stay the same after medical and social transition" What are you on about? Transition has absolutely shown to increase the well being of trans people, that's why it's the accepted treatment for dysphoria.

Do you have a link source for this?

What are the other biological sexes then? Apart from male and female? What are the other gametes?

@Iambecomethequeen

"We're quite keen on proper evidence here!" This is hilarious. I mean, there's no peer reviewed sources about transracial people to my knowledge, but there are about trans people. Which means transphobes generally go against science in a lot of ways.

How on earth is all your bullshit helpful to the op?

@Iambecomethequeen

"suicide, self harm and patterns of criminality tend to stay the same after medical and social transition" What are you on about? Transition has absolutely shown to increase the well being of trans people, that's why it's the accepted treatment for dysphoria.

Nope, another in the 'not true' pile. Mental health is addressed here:

"Among the kids who went on hormones, there isn’t genuine statistical improvement here from baseline to the final wave of data collection. At baseline, 59% of the treatment-naive kids experienced moderate to severe depression. Twelve months later, 56% of the kids on GAM experienced moderate to severe depression. At baseline, 45% of the treatment-naive kids experienced self-harm or suicidal thoughts. Twelve months later, 37% of the kids on GAM did. These are not meaningful differences: The kids in the study arrived with what appear to be alarmingly high rates of mental health problems, many of them went on blockers or hormones, and they exited the study with what appear to be alarmingly high rates of mental health problems."

See jessesingal.substack.com/p/researchers-found-puberty-blockers

If you want to talk criminality, we can go there but I suspect you won't enjoy it. Let me know though! Happy to supply the data

@Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople

First of all, I have to admit a simplification. Cis people can experience dysphoria. If you took testosterone, for example, your endocrinological system would start causing all sorts of problems, such as Depersonalization and Derealization. Trans women experience those same problems, and when their hormones are brought to female levels those problems solve themselves.

You could also (though I'd advice against it) cut your breasts off. Now, that would be a bit of a problem: see, your brain has an internal map of your body, and the map includes tits. When your body notices tits are lacking, it gives a sort of error signal. Presently, given you have (I assume) your breasts on, it doesn't. Trans women often feel something is wrong with their chest, and when they grow boobs thanks to estrogen they feel right in their body.

We know gender identity is nature, not nurture: when a baby boy lost his penis in an accident, a doctor performed a vaginoplasty and his parents raised him as a girl, but he felt continually terrible. When he discovered what happened, he took hormones and things got a bit better.
Another example is that trans people internalize some gender stereotypes associated with the other sex: many trans women start to feel they have to cover their chest, as is expected of cis girls. Even when they think they are men, something in them just knows.

Now, a lot of other things are unknown. For example, how does a gender identity form? The leading theory to explain trans people is that during conception, since the brain develops later than the rest of the body, hormone imbalances create a mismatch between most of the body and brain. But there's still much to discover and it would be great to explore these questions together without having to fight for survival and rights against bigots.