Binding

[hartof]

My DD who is currently 14, told us in June 2020 she thought she was transgender. She had always been a "tomboy" we let her dress how she wanted. At the time I said nothing needed ti change as she can make herself look however she wants but we would t change anything hormonally until she was older.

She has never asked us to call her by another name, or refer to her as they or him.
She had her hair cut short later that year and last year we found a great barber who takes it shorter and makes her look amazing.

On Sunday she sent me a link to a binding bra, I don't know if I should say yes or no. I have no idea how it will affect her, but at this point I'm sure it's not a phase and this is how she sees herself. Any advice is dearly received.

( she/we have had no counselling she gets uncomfortable when I ask her questions ie when people have referred to her as male I asked if it bothers her and she won't answer me)

I had a discussion with my non-binary child about this yesterday. They are biologically male, so not an issue, but they have a non-binary female partner who is quite keen on unconditional affirmation by parents etc.

They seemed quite surprised that I was concerned about things like damaging developing breast tissue, jeopardising the future ability to breastfeed etc. The idea that being trans is permanent and irreversible (it isn't) is so entrenched in their thinking that the idea of anyone who wants to bind in their teens growing up to be someone who wants to breastfeed is anathema to them.

I don't think I could positively support binding in a teenager, I'm afraid. I'm not a strident "trans isn't real" person, but I do baulk at permanent physical damage, and I think teenagers are too young to make decisions that cause long-term physical changes to their bodies. I probably wouldn't actually forbid it - there's no point, as they will find a way in any case if they're determined - but I wouldn't condone it or pay for it, and I would be clear about why not.

As a parent of 2 dds both of whom said the were trans age 12, it would be a no from me. I allowed my eldest to bind as i was ignorant about the side effects - she desisted when she was 16 and 4 years later she suffers with back ache from the binding. My youngest wears a compression sports bra - could that be a compromise?

Being trans isn't reversible. It isn't a choice. These myths actively kill people.

@Iambecomethequeen

Being trans isn't reversible. It isn't a choice. These myths actively kill people.

But people DO desist, or detransition, and it's better for those people that they haven't done permanent damage to their bodies. Even if we are only talking about a minority of impressionable kids who were mistaken about being trans in the first place, desistors and detransitioners do exist.

I dispute that parents being cautious about supporting actions that cause permanent changes to the body - while their children are still teenagers - are killing anyone.

I bound my chest with bandages from the age of 12 to 18 or so and now I have a binder I wear infrequently. I’m a heterosexual married woman. It just made me feel better in my tomboyish presentation and made clothes look better on me. My mother was very cross about the bandages but what could she do? You couldn’t get a binder in those days, I’d never heard of one.

Get her a sports bra that compresses well; they’re much the same as binders in most regards and sometimes better for chest squishing. Otherwise she’ll just use bandages which is worse for your skin.

If being trans isn't irreversible then the vast majority of trans identifying kids are not actually trans

Else .. instead of having hoards of older women saying " oh yes I remember that phase " you would have many more transmen

@mudgetastic

If being trans isn't irreversible then the vast majority of trans identifying kids are not actually trans

Else .. instead of having hoards of older women saying " oh yes I remember that phase " you would have many more transmen

This is straight up misinformation. www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/ The "majority" cited comes from a study which includes kids simply exploring gender diversity, not identifying as trans. And almost half of the kids were considered desisters by default, because they couldn't be located at the end of the study.

@Iambecomethequeen - are you really quoting from GPs who have been struck off for illegally prescribing in the U.K.?

Talk about scraping the barrel

GenderGP? Really?

@Clymene
It cites its sources, so you should disprove those. Otherwise you're just making an ad hominem.

[quote Iambecomethequeen]@Clymene
It cites its sources, so you should disprove those. Otherwise you're just making an ad hominem.[/quote]
The sources are two articles by leading TRAs - both male who transitioned as adults.

You might want to ask yourself what they know about growing up as a teenage girl in a highly sexualised world because I can tell you it's jackshit. And you might want to ask yourself who benefits from a world full of infertile young women.

@Clymene
The articles cite the scientific study they criticize. If you want to disprove them, you must say how they're lying about or misrepresenting the study. Otherwise you just shifted from an ad hominem ("GP isn't trustworthy in one case so it's wrong in this one") to another ("these two writers are trans women so they don't know what they're saying").

Frankly, I'm done responding to you. You're clearly arguing in bad faith.

Here's analysis of several studies: www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/full

They all come out with similar numbers

I don't have to do anything. You've posted a ludicrous article by people whose entire business is preying on vulnerable children. You're right about one thing though, I'm not interested in debating with someone who does not have children's best interests at heart.

The main health concern for me would be lymphatic drainage.

The lymphatic system is a system of thin tubes and lymph nodes that run throughout the body. These tubes are called lymph vessels or lymphatic vessels. The lymph system is an important part of our immune system. It plays a role in: fighting bacteria and other infections.

There is a network of lymph glands (also called lymph nodes) close to the breast. They are part of the lymphatic system that runs throughout the body. The lymph nodes and lymph vessels contain a yellow fluid called lymph that flows through the lymphatic system.

(www.cancerresearchuk.org/what-is-cancer/body-systems-and-cancer/the-lymphatic-system-and-cancer#:~:text=The%20lymphatic%20system%20is%20a,fighting%20bacteria%20and%20other%20infections)

They are part of the system, too. The lymphatic system clears away infection and keeps your body fluids in balance. If it's not working properly, fluid builds in your tissues and causes swelling, called lymphedema. Other lymphatic system problems can include infections, blockage, and cancer.
(medlineplus.gov/lymphaticdiseases.html#:~:text=They%20are%20part%20of%20the,infections%2C%20blockage%2C%20and%20cancer.)

Could you compromise on a really sturdy sports bra? As a temporary solution; it will help stop movement from her breasts and flatten them a bit but without any potential damage to her.

"Identifying as trans" can include people wearing "opposite-gender" clothes, according to Stonewall, so it's hardly clear-cut as to what actually "being trans" is. "Gender diverse" is possibly the most inclusive term, which would include detransitioners, and probably a lot of people on Mumsnet.

Perhaps this isn't the thread for people to police who is and isn't truly trans, because it's not really important to the OP's question.

Did we get an answer as to why transracial is bad?

@Sexnotgender

Did we get an answer as to why transracial is bad?

Nobody ever answers that or says why it's different from transgender.

Why is transgender ok but transracial is not?

I would also very much like an answer to this question.

Sorry to derail OP. I have a sports bra from M and S with zip front opening. I makes me look more or less flat chested. I didn't buy it for that reason, it's just so that I am more comfortable when doing dance classes. Would DD go for that?

The answer to binding is a flat no.

I’m not convinced it can be done safely and without impairment to physical activity.

Most importantly, there is nothing wrong with her body. She can identify however she wants. She can style herself, pick her hobbies, even choose a new name. Accepting the body we are born with is something we all have to come to terms with.

When she complains, for perspective, you might talk to her about people with chronic health conditions. We can’t identify out of those problems. We are truly trapped in our bodies, but our bodies don’t define us.

Loads of us did this as teens. If not binders, huge oversized jumpers with necklines that hung on the shoulder so as to minimise the appearance of breasts. And we all did it because overnight we’d gone from kids to suddenly being leered at by men. It’s no wonder so many teen girls think they want to be men.

@Ponderingwindow

The answer to binding is a flat no.

I’m not convinced it can be done safely and without impairment to physical activity.

Most importantly, there is nothing wrong with her body. She can identify however she wants. She can style herself, pick her hobbies, even choose a new name. Accepting the body we are born with is something we all have to come to terms with.

When she complains, for perspective, you might talk to her about people with chronic health conditions. We can’t identify out of those problems. We are truly trapped in our bodies, but our bodies don’t define us.

Gender dysphoria is a recognized medical condition. No amount of "love your body" rhetoric will cure it. The only recognized cure is transitioning. If OP's daughter is trans, not binding could cause her a lot of distress that no amount of denial will help.

This makes me so sad. My breasts were such an erogenous zone when I was a teen and in my early twenties (not so much now). All these teen girls denting themselves pleasure and causing damage and harm instead.

@Iambecomethequeen

You should see a physiotherapist to get the best size and make sure there are no particular complications. Binding is safe IF:

• You buy one with the appropriate measurements.
• You don't sleep or exercise in it.
• You don't wear it for more than 8 hours straight.

You should say yes, because it's what makes her comfortable and I can tell you it took her a lot of courage to ask you that. Moreover, saying no runs the risk of her binding with bandages, which is really not safe.
Good luck!

I wonder why binding isn’t available via any GP or gender clinic? Surely if it’s so safe it’s a simple thing to prescribe?