Allowing Trans son to go out in "girl mode"

[Nowayhozay]

I say Trans but to be honest I am still not sure that he is, he has always preferred all things typically girly and has always loved to dress in girls clothes.
We as a family have always given him the freedom to express himself, never tried to stop him and have over the years bought the occasional thing that he has asked for, along with hand me downs from his sister he has accumulated a small wardrobe.

He will be 15 in a couple of months and over the last year mainly due to lockdown he has been been spending long periods in "girl mode" 24/7
I have asked him if he ever wishes that he was a girl but he says no and that he is happy being a boy.
Maybe he is somehow in denial?

Anyhow I am really looking for advice or opinions on taking him out whilst dressed as a girl.
He has asked several times and I feel it is really important to him.
Other parents must have dealt with this at some point?

Once restrictions allow I am thinking of driving to a seaside town a few miles away for a walk along the Prom maybe sit in a coffee shop for a while just to see how it goes. See how he feels about it and if it is something he would actually want to do more of.

Am I doing the wrong thing?

If he’s worried about wearing a dress outside then why wear it ? I don’t get it ? There’s plenty of colourful and creative clothes out there in all sorts of fabrics he doesn’t need to wear skirts or dresses to dress well.

And I’m a middle aged woman who hates wearing skirts and dresses so liking wearing skirts and dresses does not a woman make.

@WallaceinAnderland

I think he must be a young 15 year old or OP sees him as younger than he is.

He is 14

In answer to your other point, if he does enjoy the experience and wants to continue then he will have to adapt. Obviously as he develops he will not pass so easily so I imagine if he wants to he will have to accept that yes he can still wear a dress but he will look like a man in a dress.
All the more reason to let him enjoy the few months he that he can

I don't care what your DS wants to wear.

But as a mum to a teenage girl I feel that your son's desire (if he has one) to use the ladies when in 'girl mode' does not trump my DD's right to single sex spaces. Nor does it trump the right of any other girl or woman to single sex spaces.

As has recently become apparent, women have to make compromises all the time to feel safe. If your DS doesn't feel safe in the gents when wearing a dress, maybe his compromise will have to be not to wear dresses. He shouldn't be encouraged to make women and girls feel less safe just so he can feel more safe.

@ArcheryAnnie

I think you should absolutely support him in dressing however he likes - boys and men have been doing this for decades, and I remember it well from when I was young!

But dressing in dresses, or makeup, or whatever, he is still in "boy mode", because he's a boy. There's nothing inherently "girl" about any form of clothing except we make it so.

You say this about how he will be when you are out: I don't think we need to worry about changing rooms for his trip out but if he needs a wee I have to agree with another poster that the Ladies would be the safest and best option. This is really, really unfair on any other girls and women who are out and also need a wee. You know he is a lovely boy and wouldn't harm anyone, but other girls and women don't know that. They are entitled to a women-only environment in the ladies' loos. Your DS's preferences don't trump their rights.

I have already accepted the point about the toilets as i said in a previous post Thankyou

@dementedma

Can I ask a genuine question. When I was growing up “queer” was an insult aimed at gay people. It now seems to be a label of choice. Is “queer” acceptable these days?

From the Stonewall website linked above:

Q
QUEER
Queer is a term used by those wanting to reject specific labels of romantic orientation, sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It can also be a way of rejecting the perceived norms of the LGBT community (racism, sizeism, ableism etc). Although some LGBT people view the word as a slur, it was reclaimed in the late 80s by the queer community who have embraced it.

@TeenMinusTests

I don't care what your DS wants to wear.

But as a mum to a teenage girl I feel that your son's desire (if he has one) to use the ladies when in 'girl mode' does not trump my DD's right to single sex spaces. Nor does it trump the right of any other girl or woman to single sex spaces.

As has recently become apparent, women have to make compromises all the time to feel safe. If your DS doesn't feel safe in the gents when wearing a dress, maybe his compromise will have to be not to wear dresses. He shouldn't be encouraged to make women and girls feel less safe just so he can feel more safe.

As I have said in previous posts in this thread, I have accepted the point about toilets

@ineedtostop

You MUST read The Road To My Daughter by Elisabeth Spencer. It's a brilliant real life look at this dilemma. What it means to be a mum in this situation. She writes about her experience of exactly this and it's really inspiring. The good and the bad. It's deep and not at all "woke". She writes about her deep struggles with this situation.I learnt so much and can't recommend it enough.

This book is a memoir written by the mother of a child who transitioned in early adulthood.

But OP's son says he is happy being a boy. When you say 'this situation' and 'exactly this', are you sure you have properly understood the OP?

That's good to hear, nowayhozay, and thank you.

I know you keep saying he’s 14, OP, but you have to accept that your decision to describe him as “15 in a couple of months” rather that 14 suggests you view him as 15 yourself.

Do you never let him out alone OP or do you just mean when he's wearing a dress?

Let clothes be clothes, as the saying goes. So no “boy clothes” or”girl clothes”. Let him wear what he wants. I don’t think he’s genderqueer or gender fluid because I don’t believe in regressive stereotypes. He’s just himself.

When I was younger, boys in my friendship group often wore make up or accessories/jewellery, and a few wore dresses or skirts. It was more a statement, I think - that ‘boys clothes’ and ‘girls clothes’ are just a silly idea.

Do talk to your son about possible reactions he might get. If it was me, I’d also talk about his feelings and ensure that he understood he could be as ‘feminine’ as he wanted, love who he wanted, and be loved and supported. I’d also make very clear that gender is regressive crap. It impacts boys as well as girls.

It seems to me that queer is being “reclaimed” by a new generation, at the expense of the generation who actually had to suffer it as a term of abuse. That some of that (older) generation may still find it abusive/unpleasant doesn’t seem to be considered.

The people I see ‘claiming queer’ don’t appear gay at all. Just a subculture that seems to borrow heavily from anime and drag.

@Nowayhozay if your DS can pass as a girl rather than just wearing girls clothes, why the angst ? No one will notice surely. I appreciate speaking might be different. Although do you think this is a potential trans thing or just a kink, if the latter I'm not sure that should be a family day out.

Why not be a boy in clothes that would generally be ‘girls’ (although as a child of the 70-80s this is completely daft to me). I’m not sure many male children could be mistaken for a girl though.

@WallaceinAnderland

Do you never let him out alone OP or do you just mean when he's wearing a dress?

Of course he goes out alone Are you just trying to get a reaction from me?

No just checking as when you posted this it seemed like you thought he was too young to be out alone.

He is 14 and do you think it would be a good idea if I just opened the front door and sent him on his merry way

[quote timewilltellsontrushit]@Nowayhozay if your DS can pass as a girl rather than just wearing girls clothes, why the angst ? No one will notice surely. I appreciate speaking might be different. Although do you think this is a potential trans thing or just a kink, if the latter I'm not sure that should be a family day out. [/quote]
I don't have any anxiety about any of this, I simply asked on a LGBT Children forum for opinions and advice from others who may have been through similar, their experiences etc.
As has already been said "Trans" is an umbrella term and I don't want to argue yet again over words, labels etc.
Why would it be a kink? He has been dressing in girls clothes since he was about 4 !!

OP, are you not even slightly curious about why your son has been wearing clothes that are traditionally thought of as “girls’ clothes” for ten years? Have you genuinely never had the conversation about where this desire has come from?

Obviously I think he should be able to wear whatever he likes but realistically he’s going to have to navigate his way through adolescence with this desire still intact. I’d want to know how best to support him with it.

@ThatsShitTryHarder

OP, are you not even slightly curious about why your son has been wearing clothes that are traditionally thought of as “girls’ clothes” for ten years? Have you genuinely never had the conversation about where this desire has come from?

Obviously I think he should be able to wear whatever he likes but realistically he’s going to have to navigate his way through adolescence with this desire still intact. I’d want to know how best to support him with it.

Yes, as I said earlier on this thread and on a thread from last year, I have asked him if he wants to be a girl, he says no he is happy being a boy.

The whole point of this thread was asking for advice and support from others who may have been through similar ! Its precisely that I want to know how best to support him that I was asking!!

Again I asked on LGTB Children board where else would you suggest I look for support?

I was obviously very naive thinking that this thread would not get taken over by the usual "pro nouns, labels, sexism , safe spaces" comments.

Seems there isn't a space to get support after all

It’s a shame you don’t feel you have been supported OP. From where I’m sitting, there have been some good suggestions and advice 🤷🏼‍♀️

It's the pigeon holing of clothes & presentation into stereotypical girl & boy 'modes' that is annoying from my point of view.
It's the attitude I'm trying really hard to dispel & oppose, and here is another parent entrenching it. No wonder society is slow to change.

Hi OP, it's lovely how supportive a mum you are. There are lots of great websites and resources out there offering support to parents of LGBTQI young people, I would really advise you go to some of those rather than Mumsnet. Mumsnet is great for many things but it is the very last place anyone wanting support on these issues should come (unless they very firmly believe that there is no such thing as gender, just biological sex). Good luck

Does nobody else think the weirdest thing about this situation is a 15 year old boy being 'taken out' for the day by his mum. Wouldn't this be the last thing any 15 year old would want?

Maybe other families are different to your own experiences.
My 14-15 year old sons were very happy to have a day out with me.
They never went through a time when they wouldn't enjoy that. Obviously, it wasn't every week but an odd day out every now and again was lovely and kept lines of communication open.

OP, enjoy a day out with your son dressed however he feels comfortable. He might get a few odd comments if people did notice but he's just as likely to get positive comments. Being a boy who likes to experiment with how he dresses is something that should be encouraged. It's the stereotypes that are harmful to both boys and girls.