Allowing Trans son to go out in "girl mode"

[Nowayhozay]

I say Trans but to be honest I am still not sure that he is, he has always preferred all things typically girly and has always loved to dress in girls clothes.
We as a family have always given him the freedom to express himself, never tried to stop him and have over the years bought the occasional thing that he has asked for, along with hand me downs from his sister he has accumulated a small wardrobe.

He will be 15 in a couple of months and over the last year mainly due to lockdown he has been been spending long periods in "girl mode" 24/7
I have asked him if he ever wishes that he was a girl but he says no and that he is happy being a boy.
Maybe he is somehow in denial?

Anyhow I am really looking for advice or opinions on taking him out whilst dressed as a girl.
He has asked several times and I feel it is really important to him.
Other parents must have dealt with this at some point?

Once restrictions allow I am thinking of driving to a seaside town a few miles away for a walk along the Prom maybe sit in a coffee shop for a while just to see how it goes. See how he feels about it and if it is something he would actually want to do more of.

Am I doing the wrong thing?

@Random789

"pushing boundaries when he has to be in boy mode, underwear choices etc"

Just wondering how you know this much about his underwear choices. Surely this is something where a 14 year old has some privacy?

Really ! do you not do your children's laundry?

Because he is young, discovering himself, because he wants to experiment and experience things while he can.

That's fine and I think everyone on this thread agrees on that point.

It's not fine for him to use female only spaces. There is a lot in the news at the moment about our responsibilities as parents to teach our sons to respect women and girls.

I think you should talk to him about that and be very clear that it's not ok to impose on them. Women and girls do not consent to this.

You aren’t being attacked, OP.

Your views on gender and the stereotypes that go with it are being challenged.

You will need to develop a tougher skin if you take your son out in a dress and encourage him to use women’s single sex spaces.

Attacked? If someone has made a personal attack OP, report it and MN will delete.

You don't see him as male , but you can't guarantee that other women wont

And you should not let him develop habits that he will have to change as he goes through puberty

@Random789

"pushing boundaries when he has to be in boy mode, underwear choices etc"

Just wondering how you know this much about his underwear choices. Surely this is something where a 14 year old has some privacy?

Well, OP probably has some idea of his underwear choices if she is the one paying for them or laundering them.

@Nowayhozay I'd let him wear what he likes when h goes out but I really wouldn't be encouraging him to use female toilets. It may well be "fine" if he is with you and/or his sister (I would still say that is not ok), but what about the time in the future when he is not with you?

Perhaps, if his appearance is female and you feel male toilets would be unsafe then it's safest for him to use the toilet before he leaves home and then return home if he needs the toilet again.

@ChiefBabySniffer

Op my youngest son often wears female clothing in the house and to family events etc. So did my eldest son. Both have claimed to be trans at one point but this was directly linked to the content they were accessing on the internet. Please please please review your internet settings and make sure your son is not accessing digiporn, Sissification, Hentaii etc. I thought I was savvy but I had no idea what my sons were doing on the internet. By the time I discovered it it was sadly too late as the police had come through my door and arrested them both for suspicion of sharing images of a shocking nature. Basically anime porn with teens in it.

It's been 15 months and we are still waiting to find out the outcome after my eldest son admitted to sharing the drawn images he had found on the net- but not knowing they were illegal. He is autistic and says he had no idea they were wrong as they aren't real people. Our lives are in tatters, he has been suicidal in and off for years and it all started at 15 when he found the portal to this awful world. Then he showed his brother. My world will never be the same again and I've got to live every day knowing what my eldest son did and listening to my 17 year old banging on about how trans he is . He isn't trans. The transgender community with teenage boys that "feel" female is a cesspit of immoral filth that would make you want to claw your own eyes out and bleach your brain.

Please, make sure your son isn't accessing this sort of stuff.

This is such a powerful post. It should be highlighted to show the abhorrence that kids can access before their minds can understand it . This system sucks

@MrsHusky

I wouldn't call him Trans if he's happy being a boy, but likes dressing as a girl.. thats more gender fluid/queer.

Let him be himself, this is more about your feelings than his.

Yeah, this. My 14 year old DS has just started wearing a skirt, in a kind of 80s punk kind of way. Apparently they are way more comfortable than jeans! DH said he was cross dressing and I ranted about gender and how clothes should not be gendered therefore there should be no such thing as cross-dressing (to which DS said 'epic comeback Mum'). I've told DS he can wear whatever he likes, as long as he doesn't think that makes him a girl (no trans tendencies before, but his girlfriend/boyfriend is trans and so are half his friends) because gender stereotypes don't decide your sex. I showed him photos of men in the 80s wearing makeup and feminine clothes (Bowie, Boy George). It's not new, it's not as radical as they think it is. Why should girls get all the clothes and makeup and the boys have to wear jeans/tracksuits. I am however concerned that the transphobic and homophobic bullying his group already get will be even worse when wears his new outfit on own clothes day. I have warned him, but he's a lot like I was a that age (crazy punk/goth outfits and ridiculous makeup as I got bullied anyway so what not make a statement).

You've said yourself that is may be that your son is crossdressing rather than trans. That being the case, what do you think his motivation is? It seems uncomfortable for a parent to be so heavily invested in something which for teenage boys is normally more private.

@leafstamp
Thankyou
I don't think for one minute that he is going to able to do this as he develops, which is why I really want to give him the opportunity while he can.

I accept the points about the toilets and will respect the general consensus.

@Random789

You've said yourself that is may be that your son is crossdressing rather than trans. That being the case, what do you think his motivation is? It seems uncomfortable for a parent to be so heavily invested in something which for teenage boys is normally more private.

Its never been a secret or private though, as I said the dressing in general isn't something new. This has been something he has always done and always had the freedom at home to do so. Its not something that just manifested itself. It has become more regular and more involved over the last year but it has always been a part of him

I don't think for one minute that he is going to able to do this as he develops, which is why I really want to give him the opportunity while he can.

What do you mean by this? He can wear whatever clothes he likes at whatever age he wants to wear them.

I can not see why that is a complicated concept or would offend anyone.

Because there are many ways to be a boy and many ways to be a girl - what you are describing is masculine and feminine. He's taking on masculine and feminine roles.

Man-spreading, as SoupDragon's example, is a masculine mannerism in the UK and many other places. There are certain movements and mannerisms that are viewed as feminine or neutral, most people use a combination and may use more of one than the others depending on the situation.

My DS1 was 15 when he dyed his hair pink. He has shirts that are feminine - in fact he has one of my old button up shirts that has a rainbow patterns on it & its' one of his favourite shirts. My DS1 also nearly scalped himself at 11 trying to shave his head after shite after too many people asked if he was a girl, wanted to be a girl, and other gender related comments. He was in tears about how he just wanted to be seen as a cool boy.

In the years since, he's had the space to process that and he's coming back into his own while fighting a lot of messages of what he 'should' be as a guy or that he should be described with some other label when he's very clear, he's a guy. Having seen what he's been through, I'd fucking be ready to take on someone who tried to label him genderqueer because he doesn't fit their idea of a guy.

I have no issue with the plan and fully support children be allowed to explore their looks, but as someone who was a dysphoric teenager who swung between very masculine and very feminine, the whole 'this is who will be forever' and 'he's genderfluid / genderqueer' when he's clearly stated that he's happy being a boy really dismissive and hurtful. No, gender non-conforming children can change just like every other child and a child who likes things associated with the other sex and those mannerisms at times doesn't automatically need a different label. If he wanted to be goth rather than feminine at times, would there be the idea it was forever or a need to dismiss what he said about himself? There are plenty of adult goths, people where that's an important part of their identity, but no one feels the need to say it's an innate part of them when a child acts morbid or prefers dark clothes.

You MUST read The Road To My Daughter by Elisabeth Spencer. It's a brilliant real life look at this dilemma. What it means to be a mum in this situation. She writes about her experience of exactly this and it's really inspiring. The good and the bad. It's deep and not at all "woke". She writes about her deep struggles with this situation.I learnt so much and can't recommend it enough.

[quote Nowayhozay]@leafstamp
Thankyou
I don't think for one minute that he is going to able to do this as he develops, which is why I really want to give him the opportunity while he can.

I accept the points about the toilets and will respect the general consensus.[/quote]
What if he enjoys going out and about in the clothes he prefers and wants to continue doing it?

Thank you for respecting female only spaces OP, it's important that we recognise they are for females only.

God does anyone remember the 90s when Brian Molko wore a skirt and eyeliner and had fabulous hair and nobody thought it meant anything other than maybe he'd be a bloody bloody good lay?

I'm 100 per cent supportive of self expression of identity but wanting to wear different stuff does make someone anything other then themselves.

I hate identity politics

Does nobody else think the weirdest thing about this situation is a 15 year old boy being 'taken out' for the day by his mum. Wouldn't this be the last thing any 15 year old would want?

The dress thing sounds fine, it's nice to be open minded and experimental.

What if he enjoys going out and about in the clothes he prefers and wants to continue doing it?

Thank you for respecting female only spaces OP, it's important that we recognise they are for females only.

I have the same tow responses as above.

Regarding the first, I have come across a number of people over the last 20 odd years, some in professional roles who dress how they want, including in clothes that may be traditionally thought of as for the opposite sex (eg women in trouser suit with waistcoat/tie, men in cullottes and flowery blouse etc).

This is before you take into account people who's clothes are just "unusual" for everyday wear - hell those people are everywhere

Why can't your son continue to wear what he feels comfortable in?

@SapphosRock

Does nobody else think the weirdest thing about this situation is a 15 year old boy being 'taken out' for the day by his mum. Wouldn't this be the last thing any 15 year old would want?

The dress thing sounds fine, it's nice to be open minded and experimental.

Yes, I said as much on page 3 of the thread!

I think he should be able to wear what he likes. Why is he worried about seeing people he knows?

I think he must be a young 15 year old or OP sees him as younger than he is.

@SapphosRock

Does nobody else think the weirdest thing about this situation is a 15 year old boy being 'taken out' for the day by his mum. Wouldn't this be the last thing any 15 year old would want?

The dress thing sounds fine, it's nice to be open minded and experimental.

He is 14 and do you think it would be a good idea if I just opened the front door and sent him on his merry way. Of course he wants company so that he feels safe and confident. I am suggesting a walk along the Prom , are we the only family that do that kind of thing together?

Can I ask a genuine question. When I was growing up “queer” was an insult aimed at gay people. It now seems to be a label of choice. Is “queer” acceptable these days?

I am suggesting a walk along the Prom , are we the only family that do that kind of thing together?

I think you know you’re not the only family that does this but you’re suggesting your nearly 15-year-old goes out for a walk with his mum while he’s wearing a dress.

Most young people that age wouldn’t be seen dead out for a walk with their mum, never mind dressed in a way that’s bound to attract attention.

I think you should absolutely support him in dressing however he likes - boys and men have been doing this for decades, and I remember it well from when I was young!

But dressing in dresses, or makeup, or whatever, he is still in "boy mode", because he's a boy. There's nothing inherently "girl" about any form of clothing except we make it so.

You say this about how he will be when you are out: I don't think we need to worry about changing rooms for his trip out but if he needs a wee I have to agree with another poster that the Ladies would be the safest and best option. This is really, really unfair on any other girls and women who are out and also need a wee. You know he is a lovely boy and wouldn't harm anyone, but other girls and women don't know that. They are entitled to a women-only environment in the ladies' loos. Your DS's preferences don't trump their rights.