Male friend wants to leave his wife but thinks she will 'poison DCs minds against him'...

[fortyplus]

That's it, really...

Their relationship has apparently gone from bad to worse in the past few years. Constant rows and his wife tells him at least once a week she'd leave if they could afford it.

They have teenagers plus an 'accident' who is still only 7. So the youngest child is the main concern.

Friend thinks it's time to split but he'd end up financing everything, living in a flat and never seeing his kids.

He's a fantastic affectionate, hands-on dad who does loads with his children. One of his main concerns is that his wife isn't interested in any of the more humdrum aspects of parenting - taking their son to swimming lessons etc.

Now - obviously I'm only hearing his side of the story and I'm sure he has his faults - but is there any way this bleak scenario could happen?

I don't know the full story so I am not targeting what I am going to say on this couple alone.

But why can't married couples with children make it work.. It seems these days that seperating is so accepted and easy that most couples who go through a bad patch or get bored just give up.Of course I have lines that if DH crossed I wouldn't hang around but he knows my lines as I know his and we would never do anything to go close to crossing them.

Shouldn't children come first.. he should stick it out and they need to work at it at least until their DC is older.

I am sory if I offend and single parents out there.. as I say I have my line not to be crossed but this seems to just need combined effort to make it work.

This couple should seek counselling before splitting up. However...

If they do split up, it sounds like they have at least 3 children so child maintenance would be 25% of his pay after tax, NI and pension contributions (assuming he earns between £200 and £2000 per week). This would be reduced if the children spent an average of at least 1 night per week with him.

There isn't enough information here to say what the financial settlement would look like but he would certainly get a proportion of their assets.

If his wife was awkward contact may be difficult. However, the courts do have a range of options for enforcing contact. It may take time but it should be possible eventually.

He should talk to a solicitor if he wants to know exactly where he would stand. However, I would strongly recommend counselling. It will be best for both them and their children if they can find a way to sort out their differences.

They've had counselling already - over a long period. I think it's fair to say that it's failed and this relationship is now hell for both of them.

Why doesn't she move out and he stay in the house and look after the kids?

I'm sorry to hear that. In that case he should get legal advice. He may be able to find a solicitor who will give him an initial 30 minute consultation for free.

If they are going to divorce it will be in their interests to agree as much of the financial settlement as possible between them. If they don't their assets could rapidly disappear in legal fees.

FabIsGoingToGetFit - I don't think it would be an option for either of them to stay in the house they have now - they'd have to sell up and get 2 smaller places.

prh47bridge - I don't think he'd be bothered about whether or not they divorced.

Well I suppose we could all make judgements about what they should or shouldn't do. Honestly he's a great dad and I can see why he would be so fearful of losing touch with his kids.

I can't imagine it happening - they worship him.

I just felt it would be good to be able to offer some reassurance.

Could they go for mediation? Support to sort things out in a neutral environment might help. Constructive discussions about the practical issues and all that.

Have to say 'my wife will poison the childrens' minds against me' is a bit of a cliche. Unfortunately when couples separate, one parent isn't living with the kids every day any more. That's just how it is. But mediation might help them sort out a level of shared parenting that they can manage in a civilised way.

dittany - I don't think that's the case. I barely know his wife so it wouldn't make any difference to her what I thought.

Wow. He doesn't have a lot of faith in his kids then, does he? If, god forbid, me and DH ever split up and I tried to 'poison their minds against him' they'd look at me like this because, like your friend, he is a 'fantastic affectionate hands on dad' and they 'worship' him.

If his wife is telling him on a weekly basis that she would like to split, then the words 'I would like to leave too but I am afraid you will poison the kids against me' should be said to her. Not you. He sounds a bit wet to me.

OP: Can it happen? yes. I have a friend as an example who moved out. Without going into intricate details, roughly ..

Wife blocked access slowly increasing the blocking. She also turned the youngest two totally against the dad, through emotional "blackmail", and lies (we have no money cos your dad is away with another woman - he wasn't).

He paid above CSA levels + mortgage + housebills for 5 years, before losing his job.

Now he sees eldest (over 16), but younger two no chance.

He thought it was better not to rock the boat via court over access, for the kids benefit. IMO lesson is don't let it go or start to go that way.

I have another friend, she moved out with the kids, and is doing her best to block access via courts. 1 year plus, he currently gets a few hours on alternate weekends. She feeds the kids information by talking to others in front of the kids!!!

Sorry to give gloomy examples, but yes it CAN happen - not always, but it can

think it would be a bit late in the day to "poison" the teenagers' minds against him.

If the mother is not muchbothered with taking dc to swimming lessons etc, I think there is a lot of scope for the husband to stay closely involved.

Of course it is always going to be hard to part amicably or to somehow make things work despite a break-up. If he doesn't work very hard at it consistently, my guess is it won't work.

Sadly many men separating seem to to be anxious that the system is out to get them when in reality the system prioritizes children. There is a danger that when anxiety manifests itself as anger someone may appear aggressive and demanding so the prophesy becomes self fulfilling. To prevent that it helps if your friend can be encouraged to keep matters in perspective - eg he did love his wife at one time; children's minds aren't easily poisoned - they come to decisions in much the same way as adults by weighing up the pros and cons; his wife may not be interested in the "humdrum" of swimming lessons but she may well do the bulk of the nuts and bolts of parenting such as washing, ironing, cooking, taking the children to school/doctor/dentist, there is life after divorce etc. Counselling can really help in this respect, give him strategies to cope with any conflict and deal with emotions separately from practical arrangements.

A solicitor in possession of all the particular facts is in the best place to advise about where your friend stands financially and what his options are. In a nutshell the priority is the welfare of children and a good starting point is to consider where the children are to live, compare house prices locally and establish each parties mortgage raising capabilities. For example, if the children are to live with one parent the majority of the time they will require a larger property and if that parent earns less they will only be able to raise a smaller mortgage than the other spouse and will require a larger chunk of capital to leave them on an equal footing.

Three other points. There is a tendency for separating couples to forget about the positives and reconstruct the history of the marriage in an overly negative way - see above re: counselling. This coupled with third parties supporting the view and taking on the dispute as their own is often behind highly conflicted divorces which are so detrimental to children's emotional well-being. Also your friend needs to very careful about new partners. Leaving for a new partner or being with one soon after separation can be judged very harshly by children bereft at the loss of their parents' relationship, particularly from age 9 up, and thus a parent can bring about their own alienation.

Also poisoning doesn't have to be in your face brainwashing. Talking "secretly" to someone else when the kids "can't hear" because they are 5 feet away. Dropping small hints, making snide comments on the side. Giving your side of the story, but stopping because its not for you kids to know about.

Can work.

If he doesn't let contact slip, and stays an important active part, then as someone else said, children can (sometimes) see whats what.

Hey its all so messy!!!

wildfish - that's so sad and exctly what he fears.

It's really the youngest one - the others are old enough to know their own minds.

Friends of mine have just split and both confided in me - the husband even more than the wife tbh.

Their attitude was it was going to be tough but they would work hard at being friendly because it was in the children's best interests.

That's how it should be.

STIDW: This coupled with third parties supporting the view and taking on the dispute as their own is often behind highly conflicted divorces which are so detrimental to children's emotional well-being.

Oh I agree with that so much. There is a lot to be said to not have "active allies".

You said yourself you're only hearing one side of the story and it definitely sounds that way.

He's "fantastic" whereas his wife is in the wrong because she doesn't like taking the children to swimming lessons, not exactly the end of the world and worth ending a marriage for.

Wildfish is right - ensuring regular contact is paramount.

However should your friend & his wife not be able to come to some amicable contact arrangement, the only option is to pursue this through the courts - not always a speedy process, and during the time it takes to get regular contact in place the damage can be done. Sadly I can think of at least 2 instances where this has happened, and where the children now refuse to see the parent who left (even though access arrangements are in place), such is the hatchet job the resident parent has done on them

MrsToffeeCrisp - I've seen him with his 2 younger children so I know he's a great parent.

It's not for me to comment on his wife's parinting skills.

I had merely hoped to be able to offer some sort of constructive comment, but given others' experiences I think i'd best stay out of it.

I've not really come across this situation before - the only really acrimonious split I have experience of was when the wife was my friend not the husband.

STIDW - that sounds like excellent advice.

I don't think there are any easy answers. It seems to me from what he says that they're both making ach other very unhappy.

It would be nice if they could work things out

fortyplus: Depends on level of friendship, but please do offer helpul advice. Supportive advice, and talking board advice, if appropriate.

My comment about "active allies" meant those that seem to almost go to proxy war, and psyche up a partner, almost as if they are the ones fighting, stir the pot.

Let him decide, but at least you can let him see the various options, pit falls etc.