Male friend wants to leave his wife but thinks she will 'poison DCs minds against him'...

[fortyplus]

That's it, really...

Their relationship has apparently gone from bad to worse in the past few years. Constant rows and his wife tells him at least once a week she'd leave if they could afford it.

They have teenagers plus an 'accident' who is still only 7. So the youngest child is the main concern.

Friend thinks it's time to split but he'd end up financing everything, living in a flat and never seeing his kids.

He's a fantastic affectionate, hands-on dad who does loads with his children. One of his main concerns is that his wife isn't interested in any of the more humdrum aspects of parenting - taking their son to swimming lessons etc.

Now - obviously I'm only hearing his side of the story and I'm sure he has his faults - but is there any way this bleak scenario could happen?

Cross posted with Dittany, but yes, exactly so.

Backstabber, he said she's fat and doesn't do things with the children. Perhaps she's fat and lazy, perhaps she does fuck all with the dcs. Maybe he's a vile manipulating bully, we just don't know but are all ready to jump on that bandwagon, just not to agree with the fears women have about men with their children.

But despite her being fat , crap with the kids, many years of counselling and all these supposed really bad problems, hes still there isnt he , enjoying another womans adoring company while he bad mouths his wife.

Im not sure what you mean re not agree with the fears women have about men with their children , can you explain ?

HerBeatitude - I can't point you to any research that give statistics about mothers poisoning children's minds against fathers, but I can give you the evidence of ten plus years as a family lawyer and I can say it happens sadly an awful lot, that is how I pay my mortgage dealing with such cases.

BUT I don't think it is a uniquely female issue. What seems to happen is that the majority of relationship break ups result in the children living with their mother, as in the majority of cases she was the primary carer when the parents live together.

The bitterness and anger caused by the end of the relationship does lead to lots of parents slagging each other off to their children; they seem to be in too much pain/too emotionally unintelligent to notice how much harm this causes. The mother who is left with the hard work of looking after the children often vents her bitterness in putting up obstacles to contact. I have had some cases where serious accusations of sexual abuse were made against the father; the accusations are investigated and found to be unsubstantiated. I don't know whether this is because the mother seriously believed it or was being malicious, but in a few cases I have firmly believed it was malice.

So I agree that this man may have a genuine fear; but I think I am veering towards agreeing that he is mainly attempting to bitch about his partner.

fortyplus, very right of you to stay away.

I despair of the man-hating brigade on mn. There is hardly anything in what you wrote which suggests that this man acted inappropriately seeking the objective view of another woman or had slagged off his wife.

I can only speculate that some people are carrying over their baggage from failed relationships and it is colouring their views.

phew, I thought I was going mad!!

Oh FGS any questioning of a man's POV, in the context of a mysogynist society which demonises women and lets men off the hook for bad behaviour all the time, is "man-hating".

Is this netmums or something? Could we kindly have a slightly higher standard of debate, please?

There is lots of discrimination on MN and I try to not discriminate on any grounds, some people are more comfortable doing so.

It's not a question of not understanding it.

It's a question of seeing it within context.

This bollocks of "poor men - they get discriminated against too" is just so brainless. Everybody sensible knows that individual men go through hell when partnered with mad harpies and they feel sorry for them. No-one is arguing that they deserve it or that them being subjected to such heartache is a Jolly Good Thing.

In the context of a society where systemic injustice occurs to women (look at the bloody figures people) we understand that while it is a very serious and heartbreaking issue for those individuals concerned, it is not as massive an issue as the systemic injustices faced by women in our society. And we also know that mysogynist society over-states men's suffering and under-states women's, which means that individual men find it very easy to tell a sob story and be automatically believed, in a way that women aren't. That isn't being anti-men, or discriminatory FGS, that's just being capable of prioritising and using your judgement as to what is likely.

You can call people who are saying that the OP's friend's story may not add up anti-men, but those of you who automatically believe his story, can just as easily be called anti-women. Funnily enough, that insult isn't thrown around quite as frequently.

MJ: During my problems I talked to people, but they were friends who were outside any joint circle. I never talked to people who knew both of us. Reason was in case it ever got fixed then "mud" would have been cast and I didn't think it was right.

ex had no such rule. Ex talked to anyone who were across both of us friends and others. Should have heard the lies.

Close people (who knew both of us) still ask why I didn't say anything. I don't know, it's hard to explain to them.

Posie: No you are not mad. Just couldn't see adding anything would change their minds.

HerBeatitude: You can call people who are saying that the OP's friend's story may not add up anti-men, but those of you who automatically believe his story, can just as easily be called anti-women.

My problem with some of the posts here are, that believing the story or not, is irrelevant. Even the OP implied she does not know the truth. She was asking based on what she did know, could this actually happen. It sounded like she has never experienced this and found it hard to imagine.

Again simply put yes it can. NO ONE was judging the people in the story by saying yes it could. Experience has shown it can and does happen.

The problem lies in why the hostile questions and assumptions. It had nothing to do with the original post.

To me its a bit like saying, "My friend came to his car this morning and the battery was dead. He says no lights were left on, he says his battery is old. Is this possible?"

Simple answer is yes it can happen. More complex answer might be to say how, and probabilities.

Instead some of you came on and snowballed and said " how do you know he didn't leave the lights on and IPOD playing, he's probably telling you a story to get a lift, FFS its his driving all men are aggressive drivers, why did he tell you and not call the AA, bet he's not a member of the AA all men think they can fix cars, why did he blame his wife".

(PS I've not gone over 111 posts to confirm the accuracy, but that's how it feels)

I hope none of this man hating crap is aimed at me, ive said several times now how i would see the situation if we were talking about three women, seems no one wants to look at that.

Man hating ? Woman hating more like.

wildfish, your dead car battery analogy is spot on. That is how it feels like to me too.

Posie, you are not going mad. This thread is an alternative universe. A twilight zone almost.

dittany, the man did not describe his wife as overweight.

What fortyplus said was: "I could have told you that in fact she's very overweight and the times that I've met her she just sits down and doesn't seem to interact with the children at all - but that wasn't relevant to the question I was asking." It was just fortyplus' reluctant observation.

I was only skimming the thread and I got that. I would find it very difficult to tar this man unless I was somehow getting the story wrong like you.

Alternative Universe ?

It is indeed. I honestly feel sorry for the poor wife in this , presumably she doesnt know her husband is slagging her off to some woman outside her marriage, nor that the woman is commenting about her weight and her parenting and telling her H how fab he is.

If people cant see something wrong in that scenario then it really is an alternative universe.

Does anyone want to say how theyd feel if a female freind was saying similar things about them behind their back ? Would no one be upset or think it wrong ? Or are we just going to carry on with the man hating crap.

My freind A just phoned and invited me round later for a meal. I might go and see another freind first ( B ) and slag her off a bit and accuse her of doing something she hasnt yet done.

Other freind can join in and make comments about her weight and her crap parenting. Ill then go to freind As house and enjoy the pleasure of having her cook for me. Ill say nothing about my earlier conversation with freind B .

However as i am stupid someone might have overheard my previous conversation. They then might inform freind A of my real opinion of her.

Imagine the responses a thread like that would get and then try to justify the man hating crap.

It is entirely reasonable for a person, looking to leave the family home, to have fears and reservations about what may take place regarding their children. It is entirely reasonable for someone to confide in a friend. Gender in these matters should not be relevant. What is fortyplus is a man? (I know you're not!!)

My BIL & SIL went through a very bad patch a few years ago - he spoke to my DH several times about it, and to me. I hope we were supportive and they are still together. He didn't 'slag' her off, just described what was happening between them. And he was desparately worried that if the marriage ended he wouldn't see the kids as much - not that he thought she would be vindictive, but just because he wouldn't be putting them to bed every night and waking up in the same house as them. People talk to their friends.

And if every time you went to see friend A, dignified, it ended up in an argument and she threw food over you, would you in that situation, ask friend B for advice about what to do and whether you should keep going round?

It's the reaction to the situation, the OP and the man that is causing some people to be a bit

So are we saying that a similar situation involving female freinds would be wrong but because the couple are married its ok to backstab her ?

No, dignified. And I don't understand how you read that into my post. You appear to be saying that confiding in friends (regardless of gender) is wrong, I'm saying people talk to their friends, or families, or people who seem appropriate, when they are having a hard time. Sometimes people in bad relationships aren't ready for taking the step to phone a solicitor.

Again, theres nothing wrong in confiding in freinds, but bleating to another woman about your wife about things she hasnt done behind her back is just plain wrong. Especially with a woman who thinks the wife is fat and a crap parent.

Perhaps the op would like to share her veiws about the wifes weight and crap parenting directly with the wife . No ? Maybe its ok that shes spent time with them and their kids whilst holding this opinion of her along with the husband.

Id hit the roof if some smart arse was sat with me whilst simpering with my husband about how fat i was. And again, the things hes bleating about HAVENT EVEN HAPPENED.