Male friend wants to leave his wife but thinks she will 'poison DCs minds against him'...

[fortyplus]

That's it, really...

Their relationship has apparently gone from bad to worse in the past few years. Constant rows and his wife tells him at least once a week she'd leave if they could afford it.

They have teenagers plus an 'accident' who is still only 7. So the youngest child is the main concern.

Friend thinks it's time to split but he'd end up financing everything, living in a flat and never seeing his kids.

He's a fantastic affectionate, hands-on dad who does loads with his children. One of his main concerns is that his wife isn't interested in any of the more humdrum aspects of parenting - taking their son to swimming lessons etc.

Now - obviously I'm only hearing his side of the story and I'm sure he has his faults - but is there any way this bleak scenario could happen?

I haven't read anything from the OP which suggests that she has simpered with the husband about his wife's weight...it was simply stated by the OP that the wife was overweight. Not that she had discussed her weight with the husband, or that he was complaining about it!

FWIW, a friend of mine went through a break up some time ago. They spoke to me when they were at the 'should I give it another chance or not' stage. I thought said friend's partner was a lazy, idle fecker who spent 99% of their time at home sat on their arse. I didn't share this with friend, although their comments made it obvious that they were coming to a similar view.

Are we saying then that I was wrong for even thinking such thoughts? Or does it make a difference if I add that my friend was female, and the idle person was male?

I think that the general point of the OP has been lost which is (as I read it) should the parent who 'leaves' worry the other parent will seek to influence their children's views? I think in any split where there is any element of bad feeling/animosity between the parents - and this can be regardless of how dead the relationship appears to be, many people seem to view their partner as a possession and become very bitter when that person decides to call it a day - then these type of problems are inevitable.

and in my view it's not simply a scorned wife thing - I know of 2 women who left their children in the marital home with their Ex-hs, and in both cases the exs have done a total hatchet job. One of the women concerned has had no contact with one of her children for over 2 years, and the other has a very much more distant relationship with her DC than was previously the case.

So it does happen. And the only way to TRY and avoid it is to keep things amicable, and keep regular contact. Often easier said than done, sadly.

Everyone who has said that yes, there is the possibility of one spouse alienating the children from the absent parent, has characterised it as a malicious, bitter and nasty thing to do. Nobody has said it's in any way good, or decent, or tried to assert that all's fair in love and war.

Therefore, a man who makes a pre-emptive accusation by suggesting he is worried about this eventuality, is calling his wife a reprehensible human being, and if he is so clueless that he doesn't realise that then no wonder his marriage is on the rocks. It's disingenuous in the extreme to go around saying this sort of thing behind the back of a spouse (whose cooking and laundry facilities he is presumably still availing of.)

mathanxiety.....

More assumptions on the housework front?

And it's not reprehensible to think a person that you are considering leaving is probably not your biggest fan. The OP's friend is considering leaving the marriage and family home, I can't imagine he has done so through a loving a harmonious situation, but probably a tense and fraught one where many many bad words have been said.

I can't imagine he has done so through a loving a harmonious situation

No, i cant either. He clearly doesnt think well of her and probably doesnt hide it well at home.

And he's certainly not hiding it outside of the home either.

He's not telling anyone that the person he's considering leaving is not his biggest fan. He's maligning her character instead by implying she's capable of being bitter and vindictive, a person who would use the children for her own ends.

I think Fortyplus could ask who is doing the cooking and the laundry for this man, and could suggest to him that he needs to contact a solicitor, and also tell him fairly bluntly that she is no longer interested in a blow by blow account of his relationship or in hearing him speculate about the future. There is nothing to be gained for any third party who gets dragged into a situation like this.

But you have no idea how good forty and this man are.

Put down your pitchforks ladies and move along, there is nothing more you can make up add to this story.

good friends....

Put down your own pitchfork.

You can patronise all you like, it doesn't add any strength to your argument.

I may just create some evidence though, that seems to work for some.

What?

I don't see my friend's comments in a new light, but I do now realise that there are a whole load of women who have the time to dwell on other people's personal lives to the extent that they post over 500 comments a month on Mumsnet...

So...

Firstly thank you to those who have tried to uphold a sensible view and understood that I wasn't asking for judgements on relationships - merely experiences of what can happen following separation. I'm fortunate that my close friends - like me - have all been married for years. I have no personal experience of acrimonious divorce - with one exception the very few people I know who have split have managed to behave in a civilised manner.

To attempt to satisfy those with over active imaginations:

Nowhere have I said that we are 'good' friends - I made it clear that I've known him about 2 years through a sports club.

These specific comments about his fears were made when he and I were stuck in a car together for about 2 hours - no one else was there and at no time have I ever heard him make derogatory comments about his wife in front of other people. He and I are both on the committee of the club and have attended meetings together (yes just the two of us nudge nudge wink wink if that makes you happy) with a view to working towards Clubmark status.

The comments made to me were very much with a note of sadness that he felt his marriage was good for years but that the relationship had now broken down and they are making each other miserable - at no time did he say it's all his wife's fault.

I would think that he knows me well enough to know that I will treat these remarks discreetly and not repeat them to other club members. Errr... that's why I posted on an anonymous internet forum rather than asking if anyone in rl had any experience of this.

His wife has only come to the club once as far as I know and that was for a summer barbecue. There is no swimming pool at the club - it's a sport with little social activity associated with it.

I made the comment about her being overweight and not interacting with the children in response to questions about what 'evidence' did I have to back up his claims that she didn't enjoy various 'humdrum' activities. This doesn't mean that I think she's a crap parent - you asked so I made an observation based on the very few occasions that I have met her. In fact at the BBQ I made a point of sitting and chatting to her because I thought that she might feel awkward not knowing anyone there apart from her husband who was busy coaching 'taster sessions' of youngsters who had come down to try the sport. I also thanked her for all the time that her husband spends voluntarily coaching my son and others.

She seemed very pleasant but I'm sure that pleasant people's marriages sometimes fall apart and they end up feeling bitter towards their spouses.

As for cooking and cleaning - he has said that he enjoys cooking for his family but also that his wife enjoys having friends round for dinner so he tidies the house while she's cooking. That's usually what my husband and I do when we have friends round so it doesn't seem unduly strange to me...

Well I suppose it's not a prerequisite

All I know is that I was once about 3 stone overweight and I had less energy for chasing round after little children then than I do now.

I played frisbee with her son while she sat down eating a burger and there's nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything that would make me think he was talking a load of crap.

She may well lep around their garden pretending to be a Ninja Turtle or something - but when I met her she was happy to let other people entertain her youngest.

"She seemed very pleasant but I'm sure that pleasant people's marriages sometimes fall apart and they end up feeling bitter towards their spouses."

But what makes you so sure that this woman is feeling bitter towards her spouse?

It seems to me that this man spends a lot of time at the club, if he coaches and sits on the board. Does he spend time doing the club sport himself too? How much time does he have left over for humdrum activities with the children after work and all this club stuff?

I thought this section was legal? Not AIBU or relationships.

Fortyplus, when you separate posters into those who are sensible vs. those with over-active imaginations, and take the time to remark about the posting history of people who have responded to your post, you come across as rather defensive.

If this man's wife and child came to the BBQ with him, and he then left them to amuse themselves, eat a meal and chat on their own with virtual strangers while he was off coaching youngsters, it was very nice of you to make the effort to sit and chat. Dumping her in a place she hardly ever visits, to fend for herself socially with people she doesn't know doesn't seem very gallant to me. You are doing a lot for this man that he should be doing for himself.

I don't know what she was supposed to do with the youngest while she ate her meal -- should she have let her burger get cold and covered in flies while she herself played frisbee with her son? Or shouldn't her husband have considered it his job to entertain his son, maybe coach him a little along with the other youngsters, so that his wife could enjoy her day and her meal out that she didn't have to cook for herself. Or maybe this would have been too humdrum for him? Again, you are hard on this woman, while her husband gets away with not taking responsibility for his son's entertainment.

Yes the OP doesn't exactly come across as neutral...

What a weird thread.

To try to bring it back to the issue raised by the op - yes, relationship break downs can bring out the worst in people and I have dealt with hundreds of cases where the resident parent did indeed attempt to poison the children against the non resident parent.

But it is worth noting, that the non resident parent would often act in an unhelpful and provocative way - for eg bringing new partner onto the scene very quickly, undermining the resident parent's way of doing things, not sticking to agreed times for contact etc.

It is rarely only ever one person's fault or one person's responsibility to make a relationship or a separation work in a civilised fashion.

I would repeat my earlier point; if the relationship is as dead as he says, I can't see any point in continuing. It is disrepectful to her - maybe there is someone out there who would love her and be happy with her? and a crazy way to live for him, as well as giving the children a poor lesson for life about relationships.

I agree Spero -- there are all kinds of bad possibilities when relationships break down. The only thing that works well is for both parties to behave as adults, and if there are children, to try to remember that separation and divorce are hard on them.

And going for help in appropriate places like counsellors or solicitors is the best way to ensure you have accurate information, as well as feedback on how you're handling things, in order to ensure that you're not behaving self-indulgently during the separation period, if that's your priority.

All I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything that would make me think he was talking a load of crap.

So youve seen evidence that she is likeley to poisen their minds ? How loveley of you to sit and chat with her while quietly judging her after enjoying personal chats about her marriage with her husband.

I would say attending a sports club that you have no interest in while your h leaves you on your own with your son is pretty hundrum, wouldnt you ?

Youve made comments about the number of times someone has posted, im not sure why or how thats any of your business. But youve started this thread after this guy ( who isnt a good freind ) discussed it with you in the car one day. Did he ask for your advice ? I wonder how hed feel if he knew you had posted on here about it, or his wife or teenagers for that matter.

Personally i think you are extremeley judgemental about this woman, im not sure why your quite so interested in someone elses marriage, weight or when they eat their burger considering hes not even a good freind.

My freinds often share worrys with me , i dont come on here and take the liberty of spilling their personal details on their behalf. Unless its something you do with all your freinds?.

Have we ascertained whether fortyplus is the man himself, or the man's bit on the side, or an aspirant bit on the side yet?

Well, you have choices. Fortyplus has told us enough details about herself to know that she isn't (the man himself, or the man's bit on the side etc.)so you decide if you want to call her a liar or not.

Before I was involved in family court, I'd have asked the question she asked (in legal, let's remember) about whether it was possible.

It has been an interesting thread, though - a classic example of bullying until the victim reacts and can then be further villified as 'defensive'. Lovely.

I havent seen anyone bullying on this thread. But i have seen comments about a overweight burger guzzling unfit mother. But i guess thats ok.