Male friend wants to leave his wife but thinks she will 'poison DCs minds against him'...

[fortyplus]

That's it, really...

Their relationship has apparently gone from bad to worse in the past few years. Constant rows and his wife tells him at least once a week she'd leave if they could afford it.

They have teenagers plus an 'accident' who is still only 7. So the youngest child is the main concern.

Friend thinks it's time to split but he'd end up financing everything, living in a flat and never seeing his kids.

He's a fantastic affectionate, hands-on dad who does loads with his children. One of his main concerns is that his wife isn't interested in any of the more humdrum aspects of parenting - taking their son to swimming lessons etc.

Now - obviously I'm only hearing his side of the story and I'm sure he has his faults - but is there any way this bleak scenario could happen?

If we ever had trouble in our marriage, I would rather my DH got advice from someone who sounds as pleasant and sensible as the OP than got on the phone to a solicitor.

Would you really ?
Youd prefer for your Dh to go outside of your marriage and whinge and bitch about things you havent even done ? Youd like it if that woman made stupid judgements about your ability as a parent and comments about your weight on an internet forum and judged you for not taking your ds to swimming lessons ?

Theres nothing wrong in confiding in freinds about marital problems, but confiding in a person of the opposite sex can be dangerous ground as we see all too often on here. Keep in mind, if hes so worried she MIGHT stop him seeing the dcs, why does he not arrange divorce counselling, or seek apropriate advice ?

Sureley he has male freinds he can confide in ? He probably hasnt done so because a male freind wouldnt flatter his ego and state what a great, gentle caring guy he is and how great he is with the kids and how overweight his wife is ect. Theres not much flattery to be had from other men.

" One of his main concerns is that his wife isn't interested in any of the more humdrum aspects of parenting - taking their son to swimming lessons etc."

Is the above even really an issue, a concern about swimming lessons ? She probably spends all week running around after the kids, sounds like hes bleating because hes actually expected to do something with them once in a while.

I would be very surprised if there even is a seperation to be honest , and if there is, considering his main concern is about swimming lessons hed probably be best applying for full custody.

Or maybe she doesnt like going to swimming lessons because hes bitched to women freinds there as as well.

Yes, the sports club the wife and Fortyplus belong to might be where the pool is?

(I got a few very funny looks during the time my ex was talking about me/ speculating about me behind my back that made me feel very awkward about going places I had previously felt at home in.)

I think people are sceptical about this,because the OP has not described any evidence that the bloke has, for having good reason to have these anxieties.

2 women a week are killed by their partners or ex partners in the UK and the most dangerous time is when they are splitting up. But though those statistics are horrifying, I personally never had any worries (really) about my xp killing me - I just didn't think he would, because his previous behaviour didn't merit that suspicion

At no point has the OP provided any evidence that her friend has given her, as to why he is particularly worried about this issue. Which is why it just sounds like typical abuser isolating techniques, rather than a genuine worry. People don't worry about statistics on the whole, they worry about their own personal experience.

Unless of course, being overweight is evidence that you are more likely to turn your children against their father. I've not come across the research which demonstrates that link, but perhaps that's because it's never occurred to me to look for it...

I think there is something distasteful about the posts where weight is mentioned and swimming lessons.

MN is incredible.

I thought, from the OP, that the OP and this man are friends and so his gender has nothing to do with it.

Assumptions are made about this man and he is labelled all sorts of stuff, vindictive, abusive etc etc based upon the fact he is a man and what is more likely.

However if the OP was about a male babysitter/friend/nursery worker and the OP was worried about him molesting her children then she would be told she's crazy/outdated and sexist, yet the statistics overwhelmingly show that a man is more likely to abuse a child. And I'm talking about very suspicious circumstances not wishy washy suspicion.

I just don't get the 'a woman abuses kids too yet a man is an evil bastard in divorce' brigade. Nonsensical and prejudiced shit.

There are loads of women who poison their children against their fathers, my cousin's doing it(which is why we don't speak anymore) and other cousins were victim of it and despite the fact that their mother walked out years ago (over 30) for three years, leaving them with their father, and then returned and took them back they blamed their father. Only when he's been diagnosed with heart problems and cancer, in his late sixties, are they being kind to him.

Look, we don't know how many mothers "poison their children against their fathers". If you'd like to point me to some reliable research, I'd be happy to read it because I actually do think there ought to be some done in this area. The mysogynist myths about women poisoning children's minds, are so strong, that a bit of sober research might be useful. Telling us your cousin is doing it, isn't really reliable evidence - it's one case of what you say is happening.

I know loads of people who don't talk to their fathers, not because their mothers poisoned their minds against them, but because their fathers failed them as fathers. My uncle for example, used to beat up his ex wife and refused to pay her maintenance when they got divorced, leaving his daughter in abject poverty in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and used every access visit to slag off his ex wife. His daughter, now in her fifties, doesn't talk to him now. He says it's because her mother poisoned her mind against him. The thought that maybe she feels he failed her as a father, hasn't entered his head. He's just one case, no more reliable than your cousin. But I bet most people would accept his version of reality more readily, because of this widespread assumption that women are more likely to poison their children's minds against their fathers, than men are to be inadequate fathers.

Absolute nonsense. I was merely pointing out that it does happen and if it is a 'myth' (which it's not) then why is it so hard to understand why any many might think it who is considering divorce?

We don't know whether this father is trying to ruin this woman's reputation either.

Reliable evidence to say my cousin is doing it? Are you calling me a liar?

It's not hard to understand why a man might fear it happening if he has good reason to fear it. The OP did not mention any good reason.

"Reliable evidence to say my cousin is doing it? Are you calling me a liar?"

I don't really know how to answer that. It sounds a bit of an hysterical question tbh. You don't appear to have read my post properly.

In my small social circle it has happened and so wouldn't it be widespread? Perhaps the OP didn't mention why because he hadn't told her why, perhaps he was rather more discreet.

It is a double standard about 'men can't be paedophiles or a lesser connection with children but they are all shits when it comes to divorce'.

"In my small social circle it has happened and so wouldn't it be widespread?"

I'm sorry but that simply isn't a valid approach to something. Things happening in our small social circles may or may not be representative of what happens in the wider world. Without access to reliable research about the wider world (rather than just media scare stories etc.) we can't be sure.

You quite rightly cite the research which says men are far more likely to be paedophiles than women. Just because I don't know any paedophiles (I hope), doesn't mean I don't know they exist, because the research is there to prove it.

I don't think it's completely invalid to be suspicious of the OP and the motivation, given that we do know that on divorce, lots of people try this classic isolation techique of badmouthing the other party. No-one is saying this man is definitely doing this, we don't know if he is or not - they're just telling the OP to be aware of this dynamic and not to take the bloke's word for it. I don't think that's that unreasonable tbh.

Not unreasonable if were across the board with MN, but it's not....

I do take on board the notion that research is a more reliable source.

I'm not i just refuse to join the feminist 'all men are bastards to women but don't suggest your children are more at risk' brigade.

And it is likely that a man in a fraught marriage may think that his wife will turn his children against him.

Assumptions are made about this man and he is labelled all sorts of stuff, vindictive, abusive etc etc based upon the fact he is a man and what is more likely.

Its not based upon his sex Posie, its based upon his actions. If we were talking about say three female freinds, where one was bad mouthing the other to a third, making daft statements ect there would be exactly the same response.

Posie youve mentioned prejudice towards men and feminism several times now, why are you assuming that some respones are based on his sex ?

I am not prejudice in any way, and i stated earlier that i avoid these backstabbers whether they are male or female.
Again if the original post was about 3 women, where one was slagging off the other behind her back, yet still continuing to spend time with her , i wouldve said exactly the same.

Lets face it theres a differance between confiding quietly in a freind about a problem , but attempting to cast a bad light on someones charecter WITHOUT any justification is wrong, whether its a man or a woman doing it.

So in relation to comments about being sexist and prejudice, what would you have said if this situation was about three female freinds ? My response wont change , proving i am neither sexist or prejudice, but i suspect yours will.

It is my experience of MN, shrieking discrimination when a woman expresses concern about an unknown male nursery worker taking her dd to the toilet and then claiming, from very information, that another man must be trying to turn women against his, soon to be, ex wife.

I talk with friends who make daft statements about their husbands all of the time, in fact a good friend of mine ( when her husband had an affair) did the exact same thing, assuming he would try to get custody and make her out to be a bad mother.

In this day and age where there is so much bias toward a mother you can't blame a, even the most kind, man for thinking should he walk out from his marriage his relationship with his children could be in jeopardy.

limited information....

from very information, that another man must be trying to turn women against his, soon to be, ex wife.

But if we swap the man / wife scenario for the three freinds, would you not come to the conclusion that the backstabber was not a nice person with an unpleasant motive ?

And re the nursery thread, im not sure what to make about that , if my little girl was uncomfortable being taken to the toilet by ANYBODY , male or female i would raise it because its important she feels comfortable.

Re the situation with your freind, of course its normal to have concerns when divorcing. However, you say your freind confided in you , and i presume you were sensible enough to discuss this with her properly.

Wouldnt it have been very differant if she was making daft statements to a man who was flattering her ego, telling her how fab she was, how fat the ex was and what a rotton dad he was ?

I honestly dont see any prejudice towards men, but a lot towards women. Theres been several disturbing threads lateley and i think if you swapped the man for a woman youd see very differant responses.

Ie , a woman posts that her and her H both work full time, yet he does nothing round the house. Que lots of resposes about hes probably tired, give him a few jobs to do, he works hard, imagine if that was the other way around ?
Shed be a lazy bitch ect.

I dont think theres prejudice towards men , but prejudice towards women, usually from other women. Often what we excuse in a man we would not tolerate from a woman.

I disagree. We don't know if this man is a very good friend of the OP's do we?

Backstabber, he said she's fat and doesn't do things with the children. Perhaps she's fat and lazy, perhaps she does fuck all with the dcs. Maybe he's a vile manipulating bully, we just don't know but are all ready to jump on that bandwagon, just not to agree with the fears women have about men with their children.

And two people working full time wouldn't be met with him working hard or her lazy.

I don't know why you keep bringing the nursery thread into it. I wasn't even on it, why are you assuming that people who are keeping an open mind about this man (as opposed to those who are accepting his story at face value) are the same people who think it isn't valid to feel uncomfortable about a male nursery worker taking her DD to the loo?