DS Alleged Incident - Police/Social Services - So Stressed. Advice Needed

[Stressedoutmybox]

Ten days ago the police called to say that my son (age 16) couldn't go to his water polo club due to an "alleged incident" and that they would be coming round to speak to me (DS was not in when when they came round - note he is AuDHD ). They wouldn't tell me anything about the allegation only that it happened some time ago, so I am not sure why they had to come round tbh to not be able to give me any information?. I was very upset/crying at the time as felt completely blindsided. One of the officers did say remember that not everything this is reported is true - however the next phone call below makes me feel like they are already saying he is guilty?

A few days later social services called to say that a meeting had been held at the school with the themselves, the police, a school rep and community health to discuss it. She wouldn't tell me either what the allegation was but that the police would want to talk to us/him. I asked if I would need a solicitor, she called back and said that the police unit involved said no, we wouldn't ..... this was last week and I haven't heard anything more. I am so stressed, not sleeping or eating. I asked her if there was any info she could give me at all - all she said was that they'd be looking to do some workshops with him?? So, now i'm totally petrified.

Does anyone have any advice? Can I ask that they come round and just talk to us, without my son or we can find out more about the allegation - or can they insist on him being there? He will not cope at all and I am worried about him. He has no idea any of this is going on, or that he might have done something. Should I say that if they want to talk to us we will meet them there with a solicitor? It's not a great time of year to try and get hold of someone and tbh I wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

If he was accused of a serious crime I think the police would be acting quite differently.
Edit - I think this is probably a stupid thing to post and I regret posting it now(!).

Difficult to say, the police are not what they once were.

Experts?? What absolute rubbish! You’re just making stuff up now based on watching cop shows on TV. 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

I only decided to study law after my 19yr old boyfriend at the time (I was 17yrs), was charged with theft. His duty solicitor was useless and didn’t give him any useful advise. It was all completely bollocks and it went all the way to the crown court only for the prosecution to drop the case AFTER the charges were read out and my boyfriend stood up and said ‘not guilty’.

The police knew they had no actual evidence but were quite happy to see an innocent person convicted as it added to their clear up rates. Boyfriend came from an impoverished background and I think they saw him as an easy target.

NEVER ever speak to the police, even informally, without a solicitor present.

What a load of twaddle - my police officer husband talks to loads of people eg neighbour complaints, people saying stuff that isn’t nice but no crime etc all the time, people make complaints the police follow them up. If it was something serious it’s likely the OPs son would already know about it, instead there’s been time to have meetings with SS, the school, to pop over to OPs house (although my DH says it’s utterly bizarre they didn’t share what accusations have been made at that point). It sounds more of a safeguarding issue than a crime.

People don’t just get charged because they are guilty of something lol. There has to be enough evidence for CPS. There might for example be witness accounts enough for social services to step in and other organisations but not enough for the CPS to accept.

And no - it being months down the line means absolutely nothing. In fact, who would make something up from months before and not just say it was recent?

Someone relying on the fact no one will recall anything about an unremarkable day several months ago? Someone relying on cctv having been deleted?

@Staringintothevoid616 Safeguarding issues can also be a crime. It’s also a judgement about whether reports are truthful or not. Often Sen young people are suggestible and say something that it repeating tittle tattle. My friend had a similar issue with his brain damaged brother. Allegations can be thrown around but they can often have no basis in fact. The police must work out if this is similar. You cannot trust the police as far as you can throw them. Just wanting a chat starts off with the prison sentence if guilty of the allegation! Some chat! Yes, get a solicitor.

Just to add and reinforce my point that you should be wary of informal chats with police at home, I have seen police bodycam footage of a police visit to a home in connection with an incident involving a teenager in the household (another teen alleged this one had done something). The parents readily invited the police in, what followed was a chaotic scene and resulted in a parent facing a criminal charge. The original incident involving the teen never came to anything at all but the whole business caused chaos for the family. Do not let that happen to your family.

Months down the line makes it less and less likely there would be sufficient evidence to build a case, witnesses forget, cctv deleted, dna lost etc...

It is not disgraceful. It is allowing the interviewee the right to a defence. The police have to investigate but they will be looking for evidence in any interview and may ask leading questions to get answers. The interview technique is one geared towards an assumption of potential guilt rather than innocence. The police do not conduct interviews with an open mind if they have a suspect. I know this from first hand experience (not as the suspect, I might add!).

I knew someone who had made a malicious allegation against a young man as she was angry he had moved on from a one night stand and she felt humiliated. It does happen and more often than we think (sadly).

OP, yes another post supporting you get a criminal solicitor's advice. It may not end up in a place where there is an interview for them to attend but they will make you feel prepared and will walk you through the process. They can be expensive if you are on a modest budget so do let them know if finances are an issue so they can provide best value. Do not be afraid to shop around. FWIW Duty Solicitors can also be very good - they are pooled from local criminal solicitor's firms so are fully qualified.

The problem arises because those reporting a “crime” must be believed. Background and mind set actually matter. Is there a chance that this wasn’t recorded and didn’t happen? Is it likely to have happened or is it an embellished story? It’s very difficult to know but there’s so many facets to this many months after the allegation it’s very difficult to see how anything can come of it.

A lawyer will tell him to do “no comment”

I’m still chuckling away at the experts doing their job
The experts of their day hanged Ellis and Bentley

Yep, and hung Evans whilst letting Christie go free to kill some more - the real world has few Columbo's, Quincy's and Kojack's and in the real world the wrong man does get convicted - and unlike in a Hitchcock Pic where the wronged man wins the dat, even when they are proved innocent (think Alan Bates and all the other Post Masters), the system seems rather reluctant to admit it was wrong

If they suspect him of an offence they cannot question him without cautioning him - it would be wholly inappropriate in those circumstances to set up a chat with him at home and say he doesn't need a solicitor. Even if the allegations of whatever it is are not enough for them to be ready to interview him, they can't just have a chat with him in the meantime when they obviously suspect him of an offence. If that's what they are doing they can expect it all to be ruled inadmissible.

@ChattyCatty25 There are many grey areas regarding what is criminal and what is something that someone doesn’t like. What if a Sen young person is being coerced and is unaware of the consequences of what they are doing or saying? This isn’t unusual at all. Many months have gone by since the alleged offence so what was so criminal about it that no one noticed at the time?

We have the police investigating loads of possible offences and many come to absolutely nothing and often waste police time. It’s often someone being offended at something. It appears this is something that has been pondered over for a long time so probably not a black and white case - where’s the evidence? If the young person knows nothing, that’s what they say! They don’t know anything. No need to say no comment if being truthful is that they don’t know anything ! The police frequently get involved in disputes but find the allegations are not criminal and lack credible evidence to go to CPS.

I would get legal advice immediately. I guess it’s either from the changing rooms or being unnecessarily rough during play. However that normally means a sanction from
the coach if he was out of order (rather than a normal foul in play).

Do you stay and watch him practise/ play? Is he likely to be unnecessarily rough? WP is a rough sport and injuries can happen (mainly scratching and bruising and fouls involving sinking). Is he likely to have been messing about? Pushing other players under or pulling them under at incorrect moments - so pulling his own team mate under (rather than the opposition) during a match? This can happen if a child is desperate to score the goal rather than being a team player. Poor impulse control means they attack their team mate to get the ball. Apologies if this is not something your child would ever do (many children would never do this - others struggle to be a good team mate). And this would be seen as unnecessary and dangerous and bullying behaviour - the water being added danger - one not present in, say, football.

Or has he been messing about in the changing rooms after a match? Or commenting on other children when they are vulnerable (undressing)?

Does he want to return to his club? Going forward it may be best to accompany him to every session (most water polo clubs allow parents to watch). I’d get him a dry robe so he can get out of the changing rooms immediately and exit the building promptly. Then he can shower at home afterwards. He can walk into the change grab his robe and flip flops and exit in seconds.

Dd plays and believe me the kids know who acts like a dickhead in the water. They find it tedious and infuriating - especially the kids who can’t seem to grasp they are in a team, so drowning Adrian who is your teammate because you want the goal is just ridiculous (and usually bullying) behaviour.

@Unicornsarefluffy Is any of that worthy of SS and a police investigation and questioning? Surely not? Sounds like club discipline to me.

This, exactly this. My DH sees this shift after shift. I would wager something has been done or said someone else has taken offence at

You’d be surprised how ineffectual some club welfare can be…

Not necessarily. The caution is ‘you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court’.

You ‘no comment’ in interviews then for better or worse the CPS only have the complainant interview to make a charging descion and, if charges are granted, then the court hears how the defendant was unwilling to give a plausible explanation in interview. This can be catastrophic, particularly when issues revolve around consent and age (u13) comes into play.

The concern is also that they will not remember anything of significance as it was 7-8 months ago and will say I don't remember

I hope you get some answers soon, the not knowing is horrible.

TRY to get some slee & TRY not to let it upset you so much, You will sort it out, have faith in your son & yourself that you'll get it sorted out!

@Temporaryusernamefortoday A child should not be told to say No Comment. They should tell the truth. If the truth is that they cannot remember a single thing about any possible wrong doing, they say exactly that. The main thing is that it’s so long ago this is probably not a genuine complaint and someone is merely offended. The dc should not be told to repeat No Comment. The lawyer would be accused of coaching if they had advised this too.

I've not read all the comments so apologies if this has already been asked. Is he definitely being accused of something? Or could he be a potential witness to something? Or could he be an unwitting victim (of grooming perhaps)? Perhaps the police, social services and the school are meeting to discuss the best way to proceed if your son is vulnerable.
If he is accused then as others have said you need the advice of a solicitor. You will also be able to be present at any interview as an appropriate adult.