In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

Bloody hell!! Cut all contact, block their emails, phone calls, be rigid in your social media use and also explain to the schools, nurseries or anyone else who cares for your children that they must never communicate with them about the children.

@GivingitToGod grandparents don't have a right to a relationship with the children. They aren't their children, they don't have PR - the relationship exists through the parents. If the parents say no, then that's the end of it because it's up to parents to make the decisions regarding the upbringing of their own children.
Exceptions being in very rare circumstances. And in those circumstances it's about the rights of the children to maintain deep existing bonds.

Your husband can decline mediation as there has been abuse in the past. No good mediator will continue under those circumstances.

And then the person who said, "since I have a vague memory that this would be key to any legally enforced contact" is correct.

There's nothing in UK law to say that this would be routinely thrown out and never happen, but the courts will judge this based on what is best for the children. The starting position tends to be that the parents have the autonomy to make that decision for the children, and the grandparents have to show that this isn't the case. The usual way of doing this is to show that they have had extensive contact with the children, usually without the parents present, and that removing this would therefore be to the detriment of the children.

You'd have complicating factors in that, even if that was true, you can document abuse both of your husband and of you - but you'd do no harm in keeping comms in writing now, and reiterating that they've never had sole contact or done any childcare for the children in your letters.

I am sorry that you're going through this. My in-laws are toxic too. Thankfully they do not care about their grandchildren so haven't taken this path, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Does your husband have proof of the childhood abuse? If not then should they send you a solicitor's letter agree to mediation as it would count in your favour should it get to court.

You know Australia’s nice, right?

They’ve seriously shot themselves in the foot. They were seeing their grandchildren regularly and they threw this in your face? Why would you encourage contact now when it would give them the chance to build the close relationship they need to have with the children in order to take you to court?

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this. I agree with others, cut all contact and block them on all media. They sound poisonous and will only cause further harm. That doesn't make you a bad person, even though you may feel guilty for a bit. Your children (and you and your DH) need to be protected from these people.

Have you ever come across the Stately Homes threads on MN? They are a safe, helpful, kind and wise place for people with problematic or toxic relatives. Some of the advice there (latest here: August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes! | Mumsnet) might also be helpful.

Best wishes to you for a happier future. x

Mediation isn't appropriate where abuse has been apparent.. Your dh is a victim of their abuse. Imo do not agree to even speak to them. Again remember a solicitor will write whatever is asked of them. My eh had me sent a letter demanding that I remove my new blinds as he could no longer look into my home. Oddly no judge demanded I do so.. So I didn't...

Grandparents have no automatic legal right for access to grandchildren in the UK. Not unless there are considerable extenuating circumstances such as them having a very strong, close bond with the children, or if they have had parental responsibility or guardianship or similar in the past.

From what you say about them, they don't have a leg to stand on, so let them waste their money on legal fees, because they won't get anywhere.

I'm stunned you still have ANY contact with them. They sound utterly vile.

Your DH shouldn't be around these monsters and your children do need to be, either. So don't think twice about it going completely no-contact immediately.

I'd be blocking them on everything and ignoring any nonsense about legal claims - let them spin their wheels and spend their money doing this. Do not go to mediation (which is not recommended where there has been abuse) and do not engage or respond. This will not get them anywhere other than angrier and poorer. It means nothing to you and DH other than confirmation that there is no relationship to be had.

Stay strong.

They've sought legal advice when they already had plenty of access. Which is so bizarre, and why do they want it to be unsupervised?

Two thoughts:

Is DH their only child? And if so did MIL/FIL want a girl and your children are girls? In which case if they have unsupervised access they can play their own version of happy families, pretending they are the parents.

Or the more cynical reason could be these two warped individuals not content with the damage they've already done to their own son want to try and turn his own children against him by saying all sorts of shit about him/you while unsupervised.

Whatever their reasons are, I would absolutely go NC, moving hundreds of miles away if necessary. And seek legal advice to make sure your wills and guardianship arrangements are watertight, so that this toxic pair can never have anything to do with your children again.

So they actually (currently) have access to their GC?

They just want it without the parents there?

Wouldn't this raise alarm bells to a reasonable person?

we had a batshit relative who tried legal action.

We took the line of being totally reasonable and accommodating to anything the court wanted. We had evidence that we had tried to be reasonable with the complainant too (eg they wanted some photos of my grandparents, we offered to send them copies, or for a lawyer to be present while they chose copies, but would not let originals out of our sight) The judge very quickly could see that we were sensible and she was batshit. Judges are not stupid.

Would the court deem it to be in the children's interest and the answer is an emphatic NO.

Mediation would only be more manipulation dont even think about it.

@GoldPombear

I'd suggest you see a solicitor and lay the facts out for them. Tell them what the past pattern of contact has been and also any incidents with the GP directly involving your children and incidents involving yourselves in front of the children. Ask them if the GP's behaviour towards your DH and yourself when the children are not present is relevant. Then ask if they feel the GP have a chance of success and what their advice would be regarding contact going forward. Would going NC help or hinder? Would they advise mediation prior to a suit being filed, and why?

IANAL but when someone gets a lawyer I always feel like I should at least consult with one myself.

Consult solicitors and let them reply to to your in-laws.

They are using this communication to scare and bully you. Abusers know exactly how to pick their victims and their weaknesses and fears. Your ILs have done just that. Ignore the letter - they have probably paid a solicitor to write this as a “threat”. There is no need to attend mediation - it’s not court ordered.

Not 100% clear as to what they have done to inflict so much upset on you all

Are you jesting? I imagine the DH being punched in the face might have been a teensy bit problematic. Along with the other childhood abuse. Sheesh.

Hi OP. My inlaws have been similarly awful - although even they would have not stooped so low. They were obsessed with having the grandchildren on their own every holiday. They were awful to me and I remember they would let me husband leave the room and tell me that they would come and take the children and there would be nothing I would do. We saw them very occasionally from then on. They told the extended family that I was not letting them see the grandchildren. It was an awful few years. I would say that by seeing them occasionally and by detaching it has really improved our relationship. They have no interest in unsupervised access now the children are teens and can be difficult. I would say go very low contact for a few years (no overnights etc..) and protect your mental health. I think there is scope for them to sort themselves out. The inlaws have the relationship they want with their daughter and her children (she is always welcome however) and it seems to work for everyone. Honestly , it gets better whether you chose to see them or not.

It definitely raises alarm bells to us. They have had incredibly regular contact, particularly over the last 18 months or so. But this has been supervised. In my view a ridiculous amount of contact given how far away we live. But sadly nothing is good enough and they always want more.

We hadn't said anything to them about reducing contact and hadn't seen them any less frequently. They've mentioned taking the kids away etc. But we've just said thank you, they are too young at the moment and so on....we've never directly told them contact is supervised. My husband would just say things like "oh, we will go together. I really want to catch up with you too"

Sorry everyone. Thank you so much for your support and advice. I can't keep up with the amount of replies but I really appreciate the time you are giving to this

They want it to be unsupervised so that they take away control from you and DH that's why. Ignore them, I'll bet they haven't even been to see a solicitor TBH they sound barking!

Absolutely no way on earth would I have any more contact with them.

Change your phone number and block them on social media.

They don't have a hope in hell of getting the courts to gain access to YOUR children.

Cheeky fuckers.

My guess is that they haven’t actually consulted a solicitor. (No solicitor worth their salt would touch this with a barge pole). In fact, if challenged in front of wider family/friends, they would deny that they ever sent anything. I would absolutely consider this a threat and act on this accordingly. I would seek out a solicitor of my own and get something like a cease and desist letter that also makes it very clear that their statement about having seen a solicitor to gain access to your children, is a threat you take seriously and will not tolerate. You consider any future contact with you or your family to be vexatious harrassment and you do not wish to have them contacting you or your children or any other members of your family also that you will press charges if you hear from them.