In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

They are beyond unhinged. I think I would be sending all letters and parcels back endorsed. "Refused. Return to Sender," and seriously consider moving far away where this twisted evil pair can't find you. If it means going NC with the rest of the family so be it if it means you finally get peace of mind.

OP, I’m so sorry this is happening to you. It must be incredibly stressful.

FWIW, I’d essentially send them a cease and desist re sending you things. Then when they inevitably don’t listen, go to the police for harassment. Added bonus that should they take this further legally (I’m stunned they got any ground with this tbh), this is a major black mark against their name.

I concur that it is likely that this is likely that this will progress to an initial hearing but probably won’t go much further but be prepared that may well involve CAFCASS and a lot of stress and intrusion into your lives, and a lot of expense in legal fees if you choose to use a solicitor and/or barrister.

I don’t know how old your DDs are but the expensive gifts may be an attempt to buy their affection so they say that they want a relationship with their GPs. Any court case will be be decided on what is best for them, so if they want to see their GPs it would help their case. Or it could just be a power move to “remind you” that they are in control.

If you ask them to stop contacting you and your DDs, and to stop sending gifts except a birthday and Christmas gift, if they continue, it will be harassment. You can then make a report to the police if they continue.

Discuss it with your solicitor first but it may help your case if they continue to harass you after you have asked them to stop and it will certainly help save your sanity…

I've seen 3 grandparents cases. Two where they were estranged from their own child and were told they would have to build a relationship with them first. I'm not sure how the managed to get to Court.
The other one was where the grandparents son had died and the case was withdrawn after the grandparents built bridges with the mother while the case was dragging on. Good work by CAFCASS and the Family solicitors.

I just think it’s nuts that some vague blood relative can demand, and seemingly enforce, to see your minor children.

Where has that happened ?

That they even had to go to a mediation.

How is it not “oh, crackpots have sent us a letter in the post asking for a mediation. Where’s the shredder?”

I would be seeking legal advice now to confirm that you have done all that is required re meditation and at the same time I would be getting ahead of them on stalking legislation / restraining order advice - so that you are ready to pull the trigger when required.

My undertsanding is that you have to ask someone not to make contact with you and if they send two further communications they have then broken the law.

Equally I would be looking up coercive controll legislation as it doesnt just apply to couples - it can be any family member and it looks like the ILs may well have crossed this line as 'suicide threats by the suspect' fall into the category of controlling and coercive behaviour as it is intended to cause distress to an extent that the victim complies with the perpetrators demands.

I hope that you DH continues with his therapy and that yu all keep extensive logs of what is going on including the FM interations even if these are just for context. I would have a 24/7 dashcam on your cars, ring doorbell and ensure that school, clubs, friends, family, neighbours and your workplaces were briefed not to provide any info about you and your DC.

My BIL put my DH thru a lot of legal stress and it was clealy an exercising in bullying - however these people are not above the law and are wasting their own money.

Best of luck and I hope your DH finds some peace and mental capacity to grow and disentangle from them. He needs to understand that their actions are causing you both such stress that it takes away from your finite emotional capacity that you have for parenting so your DCs will indirectly be negatively impacted. This is useful to remind him because often victims will tolerate abuse for themselves but once you point out that the abusers are actually hurting your DCs even if it is draining the famility unit of money, energy, emotional headspace and capacity for joy then he might see it differently.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-or-coercive-behaviour-intimate-or-family-relationship

Ime their hatred of you will prevent any hearing even going ahead..

So sorry OP, and thanks for updating. What a depressing situation - although you're unlikely to see them "win", their relentless harassment must be awful.

Have they got anything else going on in their lives that might eventually distract them?

Have you considered going down the restraining order route? What they are doing is harassment.

The relationship is never going to recover now so going to the police won’t make it worse.

Were you legally required to attend meditation, or was it just a suggestion?

I would get a cease and desist letter to them via a solicitor and after that, get the police on to it for harassment, coercive control, whatever fits the bill at that point.

If you don't, this could drag on for years and they will be waiting for the kids outside of their school etc.

So sorry you have this in your life but they need to be told.

It's really difficult for grandparents to get any contact with grandchildren agreed in court, even if they have been a major part of a child's life, if the parents dont want it. This is a summary of other cases https://www.familylawgroup.co.uk/news/grandparents-rights

You will have to put up with Cafcass preparing a report if it gets to court but they are not fools. As long as neither of you are drunk or on drugs when they visit this is not a bad thing, it's your opportunity to tell the court while it's not in the childrens interests to see people they barely know who are undermining their parents.

Thanks and you've made some really good points. I think it's getting to the stage of needing a legal letter to tell them to stop, but my husband doesn't seem to be ready for that at the moment

Unfortunately not. I think this whole situation came about from too much time alone in their house, going over and over things in their heads. That's unlikely to change any time soon

Thanks for this info and I think we've kind of come to terms with the fact that professionals may become involved, but we know that our children are safe and loved and well cared for, so it will just be a case of being open with anyone who needs to come and see us.

Definitely true. I think it might be what's needed. My husband isn't ready for that at the moment though

We weren't required to, we were invited. But it was suggested to us that it's better to attend as if it went to court it would show that we are acting in a reasonably manner. Unfortunately we had to pay for it though! Seems like a good money making scheme!

It isn't just your dh's decision to protect your own mh....

Sod what your husband wants. This situation has gotten WAY out of control. He’s been conditioned to have no boundaries with them, and that’s not healthy.

You protect yourself and your kids and ENFORCE healthy boundaries.

@GoldPombear

This is what I was musing on. Even if DH isn't ready for further action, perhaps you are.

Is there a reason you aren't considering a cease & desist letter or a restraining order strictly for yourself? DH doesn't have to be a part of it if he doesn't want to.

But seek legal advice before making a decision, of course.

I understand why the very wise and experienced@AcrossthePond55 is saying what she is. But if you get take any kind of legal action on your own ( ie without your DH), your in-laws will use this to drive a wedge between you .

If he doesn’t join in any action, they will assume that he doesn't agree with you and is “ on their side”. It will be turned into “ you against him and his family “. So I think that in this situation you have to act jointly or not at all.

Like killer sharks that can smell blood in the water, they will smell his fear and hesitation and go in for the kill.

There is no need to take legal action at this point, if your DH doesn’t want to do it but you could tell them that you need space and to stop contacting you (and the DC) and sending gifts. If they don’t, you then have the option to involve the police or get a non molestation order. It also won’t reflect well on them in the family court. It is the first baby step.