In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

Sorry just saw it’s in legal-not often they get to trending

@GoldPombear they are trying to scare you. There are VERY few cases where grandparents win access. Usually they have to have been heavily involved in the child's upbringing.

Given the info you have provided they will almost certainly have been told there is more chance of the devil needing ice skates than getting court appointed access and they are just trying to create panic.

Ignore them.

Reduce contact or go no contact if you can.

But don't worry, they don't have a case

Tbh I'd take a step backwards and assess the situation. They sound completely crazy, but aside from their awful behaviour to you and your husband, do you trust them around the kids? Do you think the kids are safe around them?

I am unfortunate enough to have had, growing up, a parcel of wacky and in some cases emotionally unstable relatives and it was instructive to see how my parents dealt with it. Had they been told by any relative that they were taking legal advice to obtain contact with us children, my mother's mild- mannered response would have been "What a very odd thing to do! You could just have talked to us, you know, if you wanted to take the kids out sometime and we could arrange something suitable."

No wonder DH is having breakdowns he is reliving trauma every time he sees them. It's like someone who has been mauled by a lion keep going back into the den and expecting to not be affected. If your DH wants to keep doing this, that's up to him (not saying he does) but you need to protect your DC from these abusers. No contact ever.

When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Yes they have direct behaviours which have harmed your DCs.

They have created GAD in your DH which means he cannot be the very best emotionally availble parent to his own DC - thats not blaming him - its just fact - he cant be in two emotional places at once.

Everything they tale from you and your DH - your finite emotional energy, headspace and time - is less for your DCs.

Their most recent behaviour is outright bullying - clearly they have been told they cant have what they want - but are threatening you with it anyway.

Thats deplorable.

Our DCs sense, absorb and internalise every emotion their parents have .... if you and your DH are distracted and anxious - your DCs will be absorbing this all the time and will end up with their own emotional insecurities in the sort term and likely chronic MH issues as teenagers.

You need to cut all contact and get you and your DH to invest in rebuilding your MH and looking at why both your boundaries are poor.

You need to do this to protect your DC.

Have you any support to do this?

Cut and block all ties. If they contact you two times after being told not to it constitutes harrasment and I would at that point involve the police.

These are very dangerous people to your DH, you, your marriage, your family and your DCs.

Dont look back.

They were physically abusive to your husband and are controlling and abusive towards you. They have no rights at all in relation to your children. There is no point to "mediation" with abusers. Cut them out of your lives completely. Change phone numbers / email addresses and go no contact. If you wanted to go a step further look into moving house so they would have no way of contacting you either via phone / email / unsolicited post.

Then you should be fine especially as they are younger than the grandparents. Just make sure your sister and her husband both have close relationships with your children. Also make sure they have good relationships with other adults whether related or not.

When my DP was going through the Family Court I ended up reading some court cases out of interest and frequently grandparents, but even an absent parent, would find that the Court would not allow the child(ren) to live with them because they had a close and settled relationship with another blood relation.

Once your children get to secondary age as long as they have no complex SEN then they can choose to live with any other adult who they have a close relationship with over relatives. I know this because I know actual adults and children who have done so. So if you all plus your sister gets run over by the proverbial bus they could end up living with her husband or even friends.

They don’t have a good case. They are either lying or have been lied to by their legal team.

My mum was pretty much sole carer of my niece since birth. Won’t go into specific details but my sister wasn’t mentally well enough to care for her. Father abusive and long, long list of criminal offences had no contact since she was tiny. When my sister passed away the father came and took my niece and my mum had to fight tooth and nail to get her back and it involved her spending thousands of pounds she didn’t have and it was not easy and took a lot of time. And that’s a grandparent who has been involved in day to day care since birth.

Your in-laws live miles away, haven’t played any sort of parenting role in the past they have absolutely no right to access to your children. I’d cut all contact with them if they are making ridiculous threats.

Grandparents do no have any automatic rights.

If they were to go down the route of contact carer they would need to be assessed and from what you have told us they would not pass a viability assessment anyway, due to their abusive nature. The fact they have done this also without speaking to you speaks volume.

If you try and rebuild the relationship this would give them more ground to try and go for SGO should something happen to you (Special guardianship order)

You can get a free 1 hour session with a lot of family law solicitors. I would call round any local to yourselves and go and get a bit of sound advice.

I hope all goes well.

I haven't read every response, so possible others have said the same but...

I think I'm asking what other people would do?

Given everything you have now said about them and the type of people they are, I would immediately cut ALL contact and seek advise on getting a restraining order if they then continue to contact you. I would worry that, as a PP said, as pretty much the only time a GP would get this kind of contact enforced would be if there were concerns with the parents, they may not be above making up stuff about you and your parenting. So I would speak to a solicitor of my own, consider reporting the past violence (when your DH was an adult) to the police so there is a record of this. And finally I'd be making sure that I involved your inlaws (the Guardians) with your children on a daily basis and document it as much as possible so that there is no question about the closeness of your children's relationship with your DS/DBIL. This all sounds bizarre, and they sound potentially dangerous tbh.

Ditto with getting legal advice before proceeding, but honestly if you’ve been seeing them with the kids every few weeks and now they legally demand unsupervised access that’s a HUGE red strip of bunting across town, not just a red flag. I’d seriously consider cutting all contact completely but yes, good legal advice first. It will be the best money you ever spend to ensure your kids are safe and you are happy without their toxic damage to your family.

I would be concerned that they are seeking legal access alone so that they can take the children abroad without your consent. No fucking chance would they be seeing the children or me ever again. Block all calls, don’t respond to any post. Not a leg to stand on. Any further attempts to contact and I would be getting an injunction against them. If they turned up at the house I’d call police.

This.

OP you are aware you can simply ignore their letter?

You don't have to respond at all. Some letters get lost in the post and even if they don't there is no need to give them a response that they can use against you.

Do not go to mediation with abusive people who don't have the rights they think they have. You have nothing to discuss with them.

And cut all ties.

Remember - "When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time"

I strongly suspect they only 'care about seeing the kids' because they know how much it will upset you both and make you worry. They're nasty - truly nasty people. They have been physically and emotionally abusive to your poor husband. They are not suddenly going to turn into lovely people when seeing your kids. This just doesn't happen. This is just another form of abuse.

I haven't RTFT so someone else may have suggested this, but hop across to the Stately Homes threads. People there will understand. All the best to you and your family @GoldPombear 💐

I have just re-rad the thread and all your comments OP. Could it be (however bizarrely), that they see this as a way of frightening you to bend to their will? They have already shown they will not recognise your boundaries, so having not gotten unsupervised access they use legal pressure to frighten you to do give this? I still think the right response is to very transparently cut all contact and make sure you do not respond to any further communications.

In going for mediation they are trying to establish proof of an existing relationship and that it is in the children's best interest to have that continue. You must not give them that. These applications are supposed to cover continued grandparent relationships where the gps have helped raise the children or where a parent has maybe died and the other parent is cutting off long standing relationships. It's not for pissed of grandparents who just want their own way!

If anyone tried to claim access to my children without my full agreement, that would be the absolute end of the relationship - no fucking about, no second chances, no apologies. They would be dead to me!

You don't know they have even really gone to a lawyer. they could just be bullshitting. Cut them off and, as someone has said, if they bother you, go to a lawyer yourself and send them a letter telling them they are harassing you and they must desist immediately.

I would never want to see them again or allow them to see my children.

Horrible behaviour from grandparents. They're basically threatening you.

It would be interesting to hear your ILs perspective on this situation.
Not 100% clear as to what they have done to inflict so much upset on you all. They clearly want to maintain a relationship with their GC; maybe they felt there was no other option but to seek legal advice? I think mediation would be a step in the right direction

This

This is why you can simply not respond to their letter.

You and your husband can get legal advice to clarify that as there is no relationship like @ABirdsEyeView and others have mention they don't have the "rights" they are threatening to legalise through a Court.

The OP's DH states they abused him.

So are you stating you don't believe domestic abuse victims or only some types of domestic abuse victims?

Hi OP

You say they have been physically and emotionally abusive in the past. I'd personally be collating evidence of this if you haven't already, that you can then use for example to explain why you don't want to go to mediation. I'm thinking of things like doctors records, social services records, a statement from his therapist if he's got one about what he has disclosed about his parents in the past, witness statements from anyone who may have witnessed the abuse. It may also help, if they eventually find a way to get to your kids when they're older, to explain why you kept them apart

They sound psycho. On a practical level I'd be instructing nursery or hobbt groups thet are part of never to let your dcs leave with them if they try to collect, I'd change any locks they may have a key or access to and I would be cutting them off entirely. I'd also instruct any shared contacts eg family friends thatthry are not repeat anything you discuss about your dc with them. It all sounds like one of those channel 5 afternoon movies.

HRTFT but don't forget (some) solicitors will write whatever they are asked to - doesn't mean there's any validity to the words.