In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

Document everything dispassionately.
Screenshot every message (some platforms allow the senders to delete them).
Communicate in writing and be factual and concise with your reasoning addressing the current situation of supervised contact only, the reasoning behind this and your response to their legal action without prior conversation and how this further underlines their inability to respect boundaries or build trust

edited to correct spelling

No, don't 'Throw in that it's causing the breakdown of your marriage' – A) that's not true and B) it could jeopardise any assessment of the parents' characters.

The two of them (OP and husband) seem very together and united. There's no need to say anything that isn't related just to sway something. If it's in regard to something legal (engaging solicitors), I would NEVER want to stretch the truth or tell an untruth.

First post nails it. Cut them off they sound awful.

Its really bizarre that they would do this considering they have access to your children just supervised. Do they not see that pushing for unsupervised access will likely result in them losing supervised access??

Grandparents don't automatically have rights to have access to their grandchildren. They can take you to court but its highly unlikely they will get what they wants considering 1) you allow supervised visits and 2) their abuse to DH when younger.

Mediation tends to be the first stop before court doesn't it? They want you to show willing to solve the issue outside of the court system (or thats how it works for divorces anyway) I'd attend and explain all the reasons you are unable to offer unsupervised contact and why supervised contact is only on offer. If it does go to court, at least then you can say you engaged with mediation beforehand.

No way! Cut contact! You were trying to be reasonable and they did this! They are not to be trusted - not in relation to you and your DH, but importantly not in relation to your children. Who knows what they’d do or say with unsupervised access?

I'm usually on the side of mediation, but in this case I'd think carefully before jumping in.
Unless you have actual proof of their abuse towards your DH, won't they just minimise it or lie? Are they the argumentative types who want to "have their say" and are using mediation for this.
Could they be hoping that if they are persuasive enough in mediation they will get you to compromise in order to appear reasonable?

If they are suddenly so keen on mediation why haven't they attempted to sit down with you both first and explain why they want this extra contact so much and why they feel the current level of contact is not enough... why do they say they need a mediator to do this? Is it to suggest that you are both so unreasonable that its the only way they can discuss it with you? Is it in the hope that they will have a witness to any statements you might make that they might think would prove their side?

Chances are they know that legally they don't have much of a case, but the fact that they are using the threat of legal action is either a ploy to make you fall into line or to get you to mediation. I'd be a bit wary of the whole thing.

I’d not only be cutting all contact I’d be moving as far from them as possible.
They sound manipulative. And totally untrustworthy.
Your dc alone with them ? No way.

And keep any texts, emails from them. Record phone calls. You want all evidence just in case it’s ever needed.

This is just a no. ‘We won’t be attending mediation’ ‘you aren’t welcome to visit anymore’ ‘we won’t be coming over’ ‘no, you can’t see them anymore. You telling us you were seeking legal advice on getting access rights to our children has ended our relationship.’

This level of involvement will filter down to your children as they get older. Cut them off for your family's sake now before they cause all sorts of issues with the kids growing up,they will manipulate them as they get older and you will have less power to stop your kids being manipulated when they come of a certain age. Sort it now or suffer later

This

So - is there any evidence they've actually met a solicitor? Or could they be making that up for some reason (e.g. to try to get you to give more contact)?

You would be very foolish to ever speak to these people again.

Do not mediate with abusers it just wont work. You and your DH need to decide what you want and both AGREE on this and stay strong. If he is happy to continue special occasion supervised visits short in nature and on neutral ground - restaurants etc then that is what you agree to and always retain the right to withdraw access if you are uncomfortable with things. Bear in mind as your kids get older they will also want input into this. Avoid any written agreements, and if necessary let it go to court and fight it but obv there is a cost to this - I would personally go and seek legal advice and follow the initial advice in the short term. It may be advice would be right now no contact so no routine is established for them to bring up etc

Remember this is about protecting your children and their best interests and the more you focus on that the better.

Just ignore, they have access, no parents has to give unsupervised access.

Grandparents rights are given only in very limited circumstances which have absolutely no bearing on your situation (eg where grandparents had custody, where grandparents help raise children of a single parent then the parent dies, the remaining biological parent cuts access ... that sort of thing. Not grandparents wanting to go to the park alone with their grandkids.

I do wonder though if a facilitated mediation session might actually be helpful so they listen to your concerns about unsupervised access and that you are happy for periodical supervised visits whilst they are small with potential to review the situation when they are older. Sound like you are very reasonable and don't hold grudges

They would never lay eyes on my children again. This is such an awful move. I am so sorry for you and your DH having to go through this.

What country are you in? I believe in England and Wales grandparents have no legal right to access.

Cut all ties and block them. I'd even consider moving!

The only case Ive heard of this happening was when the grandmother could proove she'd had a big role in the children's lives whilst they were tiny by providing childcare etc. In that case they were granted access to the grandchildren untill they became old enough to refuse to go (which they did).
Moving forward I'd be very cautions of these people. I'd absolutely cut contact incase they start trying to make out they provide more support than they do. I wouldnt attend mediation as theres nothing to mediate. They sound toxic.

I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if I’m repeating others.

Grandparents can apply for permission to seek contact through the courts. This is a result of the increasing number of family breakdowns. As an example, the parents of young children have an acrimonious break up. Mum refuses to allow her ex, or by extension, his parents access to the children. The grandparents previously had a close and loving relationship with the children, providing regular childcare. Suddenly the children are kept from them. The courts may well allow those grandparents access.

This is not what’s happening in your situation. It would be extremely unlikely that they would be able to progress to court, especially if you and your DH present a united front.

Four years ago, I decided to go NC with my father. We had had a very difficult relationship for many years. I allowed him to visit my DC once or twice a month, on the condition he did not facilitate contact with another family member. He repeatedly attempted to breach this rule, before finally succeeding, at which point I cut contact. A few weeks later, we had a letter from his solicitor, which set out his plan to have unsupervised contact with my DC, AND with this other family member!

Even now, it amazes me that not only did he try to get to my kids, but he tried to organise contact between them and the one person he knew I didn’t want them around. (This person had never even met the DC, so there was no relationship.)

That solicitor’s letter was the absolute confirmation I needed that I had made the right decision in cutting my father out of my life. Before it arrived, I had been wracked with doubts. It was further proof that my father had no respect or love for me, and if he felt like that about his own daughter, then he could not be trusted around my children.

With hindsight, I wish I had gone NC years earlier. It was one of the worst days of my life when I had to tell my seven year old that she wouldn’t be seeing her grandfather anymore. If I’d done it when she was younger, it would have been so much easier.

So absolutely you would be entitled to go NC with your in-laws. They have shown they have no respect for you, and have a history being abusive. I’m sure that’s not the sort of person you want to have around your children. Wishing you and your DH the best of luck.

I should add that most grandparents would find three grandchildren under 6 very hard work and a challenge to look after/feed/nap etc, especially if they are not used to it, and would welcome help from their parents

I too would cease all contact; you won’t believe the relief when you do that. I’d attend the mediation if it actually came to that but only because I wouldn’t want a negative against me.
ask for this to be moved to legal, where wiser people are.

I should think they are doing this because they don't accept your son's characterisation of their behaviour as 'abusive' so this is about proving they are not (and punishing your DH) as much as it's about getting access to the children.

There's no point having mediation with them - you're not going to ever allow them unsupervised access, given the abuse (and the fact they're clearly awful) so why put yourself through it? They're gaslighting narcissistic bullies, it won't achieve anything positive for you.