In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

Good plan to look into it, have you also considered changing your numbers and making moves toward moving house so they don't have your details?

I’m sorry that your “kindness” has led to this. Grandparents rights are only available in limited circumstances (eg you were both released from prison and preventing contact when ILs were looking after the kids while you were in prison )
Don’t go to mediation and remember that you can pay a solicitor to write whatever you want in a letter and just because it’s in a solicitor’s letter, it doesn’t mean it’s the actual law.
My mother was abusive to me but has never had any contact to my kids who are now adults. It’s the only way to end the cycle of abuse with your own generation and not spread it to the younger generations.

Block, never speak to them. Never agree to mediation.

Only ever respond to a court, not their solicitor.

Call police if they turn up or try to take them. Let the schools know that they're not allowed

Get therapy for you and husband

I’d immediately end the relationship completely and if they persist in trying to make any contact with you or your children, I’d have a solicitor sent them a cease and desist letter, which sets up a precedent if you need to pursue a non-molestation order in the future.

Speaking as someone who is NC with manipulative and psychologically troubled parent, it will bring you so much peace. I can’t tell you how much our lives have improved since we cut off my family.

Yes, they are my sister and her husband, who live on the other side of town

Grandparents have no rights to grandchildren

Cut all contact with them immediately.
Block/ignore any messages, and do not engage at all.
Enjoy your peaceful, happy life.

Can you afford legal advice?

The first step in grandparents going to court to get a CAO is they have to ask the court’s permission. Before they can do that, they have to try mediation. If you refuse to attend mediation, that satisfies the court requirement.

NAL but speaking from experience.

Grandparents don’t have rights in the UK. They are unlikely to get a CAO ordering unsupervised access to your DC if they don’t have it now. However, your DC have a right to a relationship with grandparents, and they currently have that (albeit supervised). They might get a CAO for supervised contact a few times a year if you cut contact completely unless you can show that it is detrimental to your DC (which includes if it would cause you or your partner to suffer mental health issues or the breakdown of your relationship, as that would affect your DC and be more harmful than not having a relationship with their GPs). However, as you haven’t cut off contact for those reasons before now, you might have difficulty proving that.

It’s possible that they may just give up if you refuse mediation, especially if the solicitor has advised them that they are unlikely to get what they are asking for. On the other hand, if you refuse mediation and cut contact, they may have a case to get a CAO for continued contact. If you can avoid a CAO, you might be able to tail off contact gradually…

FWIW worth, we were advised to go to mediation and offer supervised contact in line with what the court would offer if a CAO were granted (a few supervised visits per year, which was declined by the GPs) to avoid an expensive court case and to show that we were reasonable. It still cost a fortune to get to that stage though (just the first hearing for permission to be granted to apply for a CAO). You really want to avoid a court order that forces you to have contact. I would also add that we had very strong evidence of why only supervised contact was appropriate.

I would strongly advise getting proper legal advice. There are free legal advice clinics, if you can’t afford a solicitor.

Well, this has come from nowhere. They've had supervised access for the last 18 months, every few weeks.

By physical abuse, yes smacking, but also things like swiping his legs from under him, causing him to fall down the rest of the flight of stairs, punching him in the face when he was an adult. Aggression in anger towards him as a child, not a teaching point smacking (which I still think is awful, but as you say, more common in the 80s).

They've sought legal advice when they already had plenty of access. Which is so bizarre, and why do they want it to be unsupervised?

Definitely cut ties. They have no case at all.

Today is the day you need to end this hellish toxic relationship.

You have had no letter because they don't have a case in law. They cannot override parental care and control without having had an established and fairly long term close personal relationship with your DC and one night does not constitute that!

You need to have a serious conversation with your DH about stopping all contact. He may well be relieved.

Once I decided to go NC with my sister who has bullied me my entire life, the relief I felt was amazing. He might feel the same if he knows you both have fortress like barriers that you will always keep.

Apologies for being overly blunt OP.

Fuck them and their bullshit.

They are bullshitting you. They have gone to legal advisors to gaslight and try to get you to mediation so they can try to squeeze a compromise out of you both. They think they'll be able to do this after all they have done to your DH.

You are not obligated to mediate. I am aghast that anyone in the legal field will take their money to pursue this. There's no basis for unsupervised access, particularly when you document historic abuse.

Clearly I am invested in this, and emotional. The godparents of my children know that if DH and I were to die, they do not go to SIL or PIL. That's not an option. Other people are set up. One of the reasons I am still married and didn't divorce my Husband more than ten years ago was to ensure that on his days of having the children, he didn't leave them in their company unsupervised. Or in their company for extended periods!

I have been in a similar situation with my own family. It’s very hard, it’s a type of bereavement, especially for your DH, but stick it out and go no contact.

They have no legal leg to stand on don’t worry.

Brace yourself for potential malicious reports to social services.

In respect of the wills. Ensure you have a letter with your will explaining exactly why these people should not come near your kids in the event of your death.

Relationships with DH's side of the family is strained. We took legal advice on guardians and have been very specific in our wills. In addition (under legal advice) we also wrote a clear note as to why we wanted specific Guardians and included the clear evidence we have. We have also made our wishes known to neighbours and family. I understand that this can cause significant anxiety, but in reality the courts are very unlikely to entertain their requests and I would be blocking these toxic people entirely.

Always an apologist..

Whatever their side of the story is, it still doesnt give them any legal right to unsupervised access to OPs kids. My god.

It also doesnt matter "how difficult" it is for them having no access to GCs, that doesnt give them any legal rights either

The fact their mistreatment of their own son has left him battling MH issues well into adulthood, isnt enough to say "These people are not good enough to be trusted alone with my DC" ??

Theres a lot of grandparents out there with NC grandchildren because they were horrible parents. Its called Karma. Dont treat your kids like dirt and you might have the joy of grandkids. Simples.

dont even bother with meiation withh abusers waste of time-they twist everything an try an make you look unreasinable

my dsis ttrie with her ex a grand wasted an the mediator kept taking his side

Alert the school to the current situation, with a list of background incidents. Just in case they turn up at school.

I wouldn’t even respond. NC from now on.

Fuck them.

I get you. That does sound extreme.

they won’t get unsupervised access anyway.

Id still recommend mediation as the mediator may be able to point out that regular supervised access with you present is what many families do ( even happy ones). That’s often what family life is like.

Good point.

By physical abuse, yes smacking, but also things like swiping his legs from under him, causing him to fall down the rest of the flight of stairs, punching him in the face when he was an adult.

Bloody hell.
Yep, I'd be NC for this alone let alone this bizarre play for... what?

The best thing is, you can bet that everything they do from now on will validate your decision to go NC even more. In the low chances that it doesn't and they genuinely change, well you can deal with that and all will work out. But there's pretty much no way back from this frankly insane nuclear "legal" option.

This is a useful note, OP: What rights do grandparents have to see their grandchildren? (parliament.uk)

Get your own legal advice and get a letter sent to them advising they have zero rights and that any further contact from them will be deemed to be harassment. It will be worth the few hundred pounds of legal expenses to get them to back off.

it may be wise to try mediation just so you have ‘clean hands’ in any future proceedings. It may be that mediation might actually help (esp if the mediator comes to the same conclusion about them as you have!).
I was thinking this. If their solicitor has the situation painted as "nasty vindictive son, we were perfect parents and took him to stately homes" then this will open the solicitor's/mediator's eyes!

They have no case. Grandparents do not have rights of access. So I would cut ties immediately. I would think about getting a restraining order! They are harassing you and your children.