In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

We’re all different, and every situation is different. Your DH’s parents sound like they’re used to controlling and getting their own way. Their behaviour is completely unacceptable. However, in case a my perspective helps, I found making a decision to end all contact too painful and stressful.

There’s no need for your DH to put pressure on himself to make this decision or inform his parents of it. It doesn’t have to be that final. He simply doesn’t have to communicate with them or see them when he doesn’t want to. It may turn out he never wants to. Or maybe after years have gone by and the children are young adults, and his parents are older and have maybe grown as people, he may want to see them again. So, he doesn’t have to decide now. Though, of course, it may help him mentally to do so. Something to explore with his counsellor.

I’d also be extremely careful about trusting the family member you mention. If they tell your in-laws news about you or the children, they could use it to manipulate the situation. It sounds like they’d go to any lengths. For example, when your DC are old enough to have their own phone, could this family member end up sharing their number with the in laws?

They've tried to get access to your children without your consent. you can't ever trust them again. cut all ties.

as others have said get some legal advice
if your husband has evidence of their abuse I would start gathering that

I don't agree
Mediation will give these people contact with OP and her DH, and then does not benefit them at all OR their DC. The NC can be explained in an appropriate way.
There is no need for it and OP doesn't have to demonstrate that they have tried. And as for thinking that these people will miraculously change you are at a minimum naive.

I agree. The standard advice is not to seek counselling with your abuser, and l don’t see this situation as any different. The in laws are abusive and mediation is essentially counselling both sides to a mutually agreed solution. The solution already exists - NC.

I would think your H was thinking that his parents may behave better this time around despite his own experiences to the contrary. His parents have not changed; they remain highly dangerous and are unsafe to be around both physically and emotionally.

If they are too difficult/toxic etc for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for the kids too.

A hard no to mediation with his abusive parents. Such is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. What you've written is typical of how many toxic parents behave when they cannot get their own way.
Their actions are all about power and control which lie at the heart of abuse. Not all mediators recognise such abuse and they could easily manipulate a mediator too.

Flying monkeys have their own agenda and your interests are not at heart. Their opinion needs to be ignored too.

Go no contact and consider moving also if this is an option. Give your children the age appropriate truth re his parents. Both of you need therapy re his parents. Do have a look at and consider posting on the "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on the Relationships page of this site.

FIL sounds like an out of control toddler upon first hearing the word NO.
He’s going to kill himself because nobody wants to play his horrible game.
Eyeroll
Silly man, you’d laugh if they weren’t so intent on trying to push your lives around
Its tricky but your DH needs to filter what he says to wider family as it’s feeding the drama rather than dissipating it
Keep strong and don’t waiver
Bet your in laws don’t have many friends, rational people will avoid them

I think you need to get proper legal advice maybe ask citizens advice as a free service - because even a quick google shows they can apply through the courts for contact - them approaching you for mediation is their first step - you refusing this might not look good so best to get proper advice. I think especially since they are so far away and their past history you have gone above and beyond to facilitate contact and it’s their loss now not your kids - they sound toxic.

I can say I met with a solicitor to threaten someone, even if I hadn't, it's a common tactic.

Even if they have met with a solicitor, until you get communication from the solicitor in question, nothing has happened - and a letter from a solicitor is just that, a letter, don't get involved in solicitors letter ping pong, its an expensive pastime.

Can't see they have a case, just move on and forget it for now.

By the second paragraph I’d read enough.
NC immediately.

best to you and yours xx

Threatening suicide is classic abusive behaviour. It is designed to frighten you into doing what they want. The fact that they have sought access to your children unsupervised and without your consent, and then have been threatening to kill themselves really means they have given you no choice. No contact seems to be the only option they have left you with and definitely the option that is better for all of your wellbeing. I understand that is easier said than done for your DH but from your point of view I would be going NC with them and supporting your DH with how he wishes to approach this.

Personally when I went NC with my sister I did write a very short email as I wanted there to be no ambiguity about what I was doing. I think it's a difficult one to judge as of course it can feed into their own drama and they have something to show other people and say "woe is me". So if you do write to them I would keep it very brief, state the reason why you have been left with this as the option and explain no further contact is wanted and keep a record of it so you have evidence you have asked them to stop.

If you are in the UK, I'm pretty sure that grandparents have no legal right to enforce contact with their grandchildren.

This thread might be useful, particularly for your other half.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5178966-october-2024-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

Its not bizarre.

They were using the threat of legal action to force you to mediation and capitulation PRECISELY because they knew they had no legal recourse.

They thought they could scare you and intimidate you into giving way to them WITHOUT going legal.

This isn't an unusual legal ploy if you haven't got a leg to stand on otherwise.

The threats of suicide are absolutely part of the same kind of pattern which you otherwise detail.

People who care about others don't put them through this. Make sure your DH keeps repeating this to himself if the guilt kicks in. He needs to focus on those who DO love him and what he's built INSPITE of that. And to remember he is loved even if its not by his parents.

The grandparents can’t just apply to the courts for contact - not in the UK. Grandparents don’t have any right of contact. The right to have a relationship with the grandparents belongs to the children, and that won’t be granted unless there are solid grounds for it, which includes an assessment of the existing relationship.

The grandparents will have to apply to the courts for permission just to make an application for contact, and for that to be granted they would have to show that they have a close relationship with the children, including overnight childcare, which isn’t the case here.

And mediation is not necessarily a first step. For the grandparents it may be their only hope. The fact that they’ve consulted a solicitor and are not pursuing a court case almost certainly means that the solicitor has advised them they don’t have a case and that mediation may be their best option for negotiation. But that assumes that OP and her DH are open to negotiation. They don’t have to be. The grandparents are abusive. Why would OP and her DH want to attend counselling with their abusers ?

I have read the whole thread OP and I have to add that abusers rarely give two hoots about the people involved. All the stress they are causing your husband is down to them wanting control of him. They don’t care about him per se.
Using the children and feigning interest in unsupervised access was a red herring simply to abuse him further.
But what they are doing is working, which is their intention, so I’d ask politely for any other family members to not pass on info and if there are any further suicide threats made directly to your husband he should contact the police for a welfare check.
I expect they’d shut up after that visit.
wishing you all the best for the future.

I’m so sorry for your situation.

For what it’s worth, you are so right to shield your children from this emotional manipulation. You are protecting them from ever having to feel the way that your husband feels now. Imagine them and older, more independent young people being told “Visit granny more or I’ll be so sad”, “Your Granda would die without your visits” etc.

You are right to stay as far away from the crazy as possible. It will be so hard for your husband but as the time goes on, I am sure he will feel a huge sense of relief.

Do you have any experience at all of childhood abuse? Dysfunctional and toxic family members?

Based on your post, I highly doubt it.

No contact is FAR from the easy option. Its like a bereavement, as a PP pointed out, with the additional pain of guilt-tripping from misguided people like you.

Some people actually DON'T change and it is part of the healing process to accept this, to accept that they won't change and the best way to protect yourself from further hurt it to walk away from them.

No contact is the lesser of the evils. Most people do try to reason with unreasonable people for quite some time before they give up and go no contact. OP and her DH have tried and have no obligation to anyone to try any more.

My parents tried to drag my children into their manipulation too. It gets even worse once the children are old enough for phones. Then the gps will have unrestricted access to your children - and will slowly poison your children against you (as my mother did) it starts slowly by undermining your parenting and authority, lying, making you the bad guy, and building and love bombing the children.
Children are uniquely susceptible, because they will naturally trust a close family member. Before you know it, the grandparents will be manipulating, gas lighting and eventually abusing your children. The ultimate goal here is to continue the cycle of abuse.

I can not stress to you the importance of you holding the line here, even when your dh will inevitably waver. You must never allow your children near them under any my circumstances.

If they truly cared about your children they wouldn’t be doing this in the first place and inflicting such pain and misery on you as their parents. Threatening you and scaring you witless. That is not loving your grandchildren! It is pure abuse.

I am so sorry you are having to endure this.

You can usually get one hour legal advice for free from most solicitors. If you are part of a trade union then usually as part of your fee you can get an hour free with a solicitor, they will source a relevant one for you (through my union I spoke to a housing solicitor, not only work related.

Check out lawworks for free legal advice https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you

Also, have you googled their solicitor? This smacks of family friend giving legal advice and them using a logo/fake headed paper!

Tell the family member if dm’s parents are talking about suicide then they need to call an ambulance immediately. They obviously are just toxic and saying that, to have that on their health record, if it somehow came to court then it would be a mark against their suitability. Not that it would in a million years!

you could also suggest to fm that they contact anonymously the inlaws gp and flag mental health issues, it sounds like they have them, and they will look against their behaviour and appointments to ascertain whether there is an issue. I had to do that with my mum because she was fucking toxic, overbearing and unstable. They offered her counselling. It did improve her behaviour. Maybe it will give them the wake up call to back off and realise they are the problem.

you may expect some kind of contact over xmas. Build your resilience for this.

Im so glad your dm is getting professional health, and that as a family I hope you are able to do some lovely things together and reset from the stress of this

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children.

They're wasting their time, because (assuming you're in the UK) grandparents do not have any legal entitlement to see their grandchildren. Their solicitor will likely have told them that.

They're nuts and no, don't try to repair the relationship.

Why bother asking, it’s the internet; which rejoices in the chance to go “no-contact” with “toxic” and “narcissist” parents. Obviously it’s frothing at the mouth for this story. Then again these ones do seem to fit the bill. However, it’s not the internet’s decision and nor is it yours. Let your husband decide what we wants to do. I personally would keep a low key relationship if at all possible.

Oh, OP I am so sorry. If your solicitor has told you that the inlaws have no case, change your phone numbers, and I would get a dedicated mobile/email where they can reach you, and just largely ignore it. The threatening suicide stuff is just attempts to reel you back in. Go very, very low contact and grey rock if you have to speak to them. My paternal grandfather was an abusive man, and we had as kids very little contact with him. He tried in revenge to get my dad's taxes audited when my father wouldn't name me according to his wishes (Ida Clare...my grandfather wanted me to have a joke name), but it didn't work. Best course of action is as little contact as possible. Shield your kids.

It is the OP's partial decision whether she allows her children to maintain contact with their GP.

Given earlier posts about phyiscal punishment there's other avenues she could pursue if her DH does allow contact to continue. He may not have the final word on this.

So to say its not the OP's decision to make, is frankly, bollocks.

well I personally respect my partner’s judgment enough to allow them to make the decisions regarding their parents, so of course you’re perfectly right that it may very well be bollocks if you either can’t or won’t extend your partner the same treatment ☺️