In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

Yep, that's a good summary. Thankfully they don't live nearby. But I want nothing more to do with them.

I would ask this ‘family member’ to stop telling you these things. They are still trying to manipulate you.

Go no contact, make sure your husband keeps up the counselling, and concentrate on your own lives.

You can't actually deal with them. This is all textbook manipulative behaviour. Threatening to kill themselves - threat. Using other people to get the message back to you - flying monkeys etc etc.

The only thing you can do is to go no contact.

Yeah that's true. We will have to explain to them why we don't want to hear about the in laws.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

The relationship has completely broken down (by their own doing) and you have no choice now but to go no contact. To the extent of changing phone numbers and emails if needed. I don’t think you need to move, but keep a diary if their behaviour escalates.

That's a really helpful line. They have shown us their true colours.

I will keep a record. There is no way we could move, that's just not an option for us.

Do people write a letter telling them we want no further contact? Or would you just ignore them if they attempt to get in touch? I wonder if legally it is better to state it in writing, so that if they continue to try and contact us we have evidence that we've asked them not to?

Nothing breaks down a relationship more efficiently than threatening suicide if you don't get what you want, so they've done that for themselves, the daft arseholes.

At least that's final proof they have no actual interest in you.

Sorry, it must be hard for your dh.

Threatening suicide or self harm is very often used by abusers as a control technique. As you are now NC you should not respond but if a third party contacts you just respond saying you are sorry to hear this and would recommend they get support via their GP, health insurer or other body.

Has your DH cut contact too? He really needs to. His mental health difficulties are likely 99% due to their treatment of him.

I wouldn't write a letter. They'll love to have "your disfunction" in letter form! Just ignore. Take a look at 'The Stately Homes' thread

I would only write a letter if you get contact that is unwanted, anything wit emotional manipulation. That way you have evidence that communication. Is unwanted and you can gather evidence to go down the harassment route.

If you need to go down this, and hopefully you won’t, then a solicitorsletter is better as you have evidence it was sent and can’t be misconstrued.

Look out for flying monkeys, (from the wizard of oz when the witch sends her monkeys out to hassle Dorothy et al…). You will get other relatives saying how hurt and upset your ILs are, expressing bafflement etc… Having some stock phrases to respond to this is really useful. “Communication has broken down due to their poor bahviour, we don’t want to discuss it further. How is my dear niece getting on with…”

I would cut contact with the flying monkey too. They are just enabling this toxic duo.

Have you heard for DARVO?

It is a pattern of behaviour often seen in abusive relationships by the perpetrators.
Deny,
attack,
reverse victim and offender (making out to you and others that this is all your fault and how nasty you are being and they are the true victims of all this).

You seem to be have passed Deny, attack has just stated so look out for the last one!

OP that’s so awful for you, I’m so sorry. Cut all contact now, without notifying them and tell family members not to tell you anything about them. If you give into their horrible manipulation they’ll emotionally blackmail your DC with them same and that doesn’t bear thinking about.

@GoldPombear i would suggest not writing a letter as it feeds the drama they want to have around them.

FIL won’t commit suicide. Just as MIL hasn’t over all these years when she’s threatened it. It’s just a nasty tantrumy threat to make people do as the ILs want.

If they ever contact you/call and threaten suicide I’d explain I am contacting the police for a welfare check and also how does it look for expectinh access to grandchildren if they are suicidal.. It’s just another reason your children can’t be in their company isn’t it. ;)

Anyone who needs to have it explained to them that passing on threats of suicide is not a good idea, is either stupid or manipulative.

Anyone who needs to have it explained to them that passing on threats of suicide is not a good idea, is either stupid or manipulative.

^^ this

Silence is golden. Never contact them whatsoever.. My dm sent me lots of Woe Is Me letters. Binned and never responded. She got the message.. If the family member mentions them suggest they ring the police for a welfare check of they are so concerned but it's not your business anymore.

I'm glad your husband is getting counselling, I'm sure that's helpful for him and for all of you as a family.

Who is this "family member" who keeps interfering? Is it someone who has an otherwise positive impact on your lives? If not consider reducing contact with them. Definitely make it clear to them that you don't want to hear about the in-laws, and you don't want them passing on information about any of you to the in-laws.

Oh and the way you deal with threats and people like this is not to deal with them. You step back and don't engage. If they haven't contacted you directly there's no need to contact them at all. If they do contact you directly, ask them to stop (in writing - email or text message or whatever - so you can evidence it if needed).

@GoldPombear

Look up 'flying monkeys'. The relatives who told your DH about the suicide threat are flying monkeys (FM), either wittingly or unwittingly. The unwitting ones will usually back off once you tell them you don't want to hear what they have to say. The witting ones are a lost cause. You can expect more of them. And if it hasn't happened yet, there will be tales of heart trouble, cancer, and all sorts of serious illnesses, including mysterious ones that will 'end in death' relayed by FM if you don't nip it in the bud. I'm actually sort of surprised that the iLs brought out the 'big guns' of suicide before they tried to 'sweet talk' you. Suicide is usually the threat of last resort.

As far as explaining to the FM (or anyone else) why you wish NC with DH's parents, you really don't have to. It is enough to say "We have reasons that we do not wish to discuss. Please respect that and do not mention X and Y to us and please do not tell us what they're saying and doing. We don't want to know". If they can't accept that, then they'll continue to do it and will never 'have your backs'. Just know that as sad as it is, there will be 'losses' for your DH in people who will take your iLs side. I'm glad he's getting counseling, it will really help him sort the wheat from the chaff.

If the suicide threats arnt working expect another invented 'crisis' to whistle you back .... likley health crisis etc - even if its real do not respond.

You need to literally see these people as dangerous hyenyas and keep away.

Dont discuss anything with other family or friends who are in contact with them.

I 100% agree with this.

This 'family member' is behaving like the text book 'Flying Monkey' that they are. They are not helpful, they are not useful to have around, they are actually quite dangerous in their way - because they can play whispers with whatever titbits of information they come into and put their spin on how they present it.

After reading your update about what your FiL said he would do if the relationship breaks down, well, that would be entirely on him. What I would do immediately is set up new email addresses and give those new ones out to schools/GP's/whoever might need them. Leave the existing ones for these family members to communicate to. I'd also get new mobile numbers and I'd use these new numbers for personal calls/business and leave the existing ones for the family to communicate to. You won't read anything that goes into those mailboxes or answer any phone calls you get on the old numbers because they will be from the family.

I'd then begin a search to find somewhere new to live and if it's not a million miles away from where you are currently, but is far enough from them, then I'd move and see if it might be possible to WFH for a bit from your employer if that might be something that could affect a move.

Then just don't respond to any interfering family members.

I would just go completely non contact. Don’t respond it feeds their power. Ignore them and grey rock.
I did this with my own mother. I can’t tell you how much better I felt when the decision was made. She tries every now and again with a letter. I ignore them. The relief is huge.

Yeah it is awfully hard for him. Thanks

I'm so glad for you, that the decision you made has been a good one x