Confused about police action

[W0rri3d]

A loved one is potentially in trouble with the police. They had been invited to give an interview under caution, but have now been told that told that a decision on being charged etc can be made without even talking to them (is all being based on statements from the people who reported it, and CCTV). Myself and a few friends were also a witness to their "crime" and are being refused a chance to give our own statements. The police are also saying he can not have an appropriate adult if he comes into the station for interview (he is autistic, is entitled to an appropriate adult, and carries a card to say this).

BTW, the crime was having an autistic meltdown in public. My loved one was overwhelmed, tried to escape the situation but was shouted/grabbed at, so had a full meltdown involving shouting and throwing items. He was then forced to the floor by someone not even trained in restraint.

It all seems horribly unfair and one sided. The people who gave statements have since been spreading lies about him, and one is now in psychiatric hospital.

I am worried sick about all of this.

Anyone savvy with matters like this... any words of comfort or advice most welcome.

Thanks

What's the charge? You say the crime is 'having an autistic meltdown' but that's not a crime, it maybe be a reason for an offence but what are they being charged with?

The CPS decide on charges not the police.

Charging decision is made by cps, not police.

if he needs an appropriate adult he will get one. The police will ruin the whole case if they don’t.

as pp, and autistic meltdown is not a crime. What has he actually been arrested for?

Thank you for replying.

He has not had an interview, so we don't know what the charges would be. They have said they have enough information to make a decision without seeing him. This does not sound right to me. Can the police pass his case on to the CPS without seeing him?

He threw items at people to get them away from him. He was terrified.

He has not been arrested, but was informed by his support worker (which is just a MIND wellbeing support worker, not a social worker or anything like that) that the police were investigating, and the police have since contacted him inviting him for interview under caution. He has been trying to sort a solicitor out in the mean time, and has not yet been interviewed.

Serious charges are decided by the CPS. Lower level offences (minor assaults, public order, criminal damage etc.) are charged by police. It is possible for police to ‘straight-charge’ someone without interview if the evidence is overwhelming.

He doesn’t need to sort a solicitor, he can tell the officer arranging the interview that he wants the duty solicitor and police will arrange this for him free of charge.

He is entitled to an appropriate adult though, however, their role is to make sure he understands the process, not to speak in his behalf or answer questions. I would suggest you call up with your relative to arrange the interview, and re-iterate that he will be bringing an AA with him.

In the pre-interview briefing with his solicitor he will be able to raise the option of his own witnesses, and this can then be brought up as part of the interview process.

The evidence they have is from people who have since been spreading lies about him, and scaring people. I have heard 3rd and 4th hand accounts from people that were not even there (and they had no idea I was actually there and calmed him down enough to go home), and that have been warped out of proportion and also fail to mention he is autistic and was overwhelmed. They have just made him out to be a violent person. He has not given his side, or that of the people who were with him. We have been denied that.

He has a side but it would be of concern to me as a member of the public if his meltdowns put me at risk because of getting items thrown at me. There's also a shopkeeper who has suffered loss because of it. I'm not unsympathetic but there is a public safety issue here that the police have taken control of.

I would get a solicitor onto it, I would get his doctor onto it, I would get any advocates you can get onto it.

I'm sure this will be resolved once they've established it was driven by autistic overwhelm. Meanwhile I get this is really stressful and hope you have good support too.

I have a bit of experience with this - not a lawyer or anything though.

I’m wondering are we missing a bit of information? Why did the police even mention they can make a decision without talking to your loved one/relative? Is he/others saying he will not attend the interview or delaying it ?

The fact is he’s been invited to interview so if he goes and makes a statement with a duty solicitor they will take his statement into consideration.

I'm Surprised they are preventing you and others from making a statement though? Makes me think they aren’t taking this very seriously and will drop charges. Because surely if it went further his defence team would call all of you up.

He has been in email correspondence with the investigating officer. In his latest email to her, he mentioned that there were more witnesses wanting to come forward (myself, and two others). She said that she would not consider it as she had enough information to make a decision... He does have an appointment with his MIND worker tomorrow, and I have suggested he show her all correspondences with this police officer, as he does sometimes read things wrong.
He is not delaying the interview, but wants his own solicitor (not duty) and an appropriate adult sorted first.

But are your witnesses statements going to be offering a reason for his behaviour, rather than saying a different description of what happened?

He takes himself to his safe space (home) when overwhelmed. In this instant, he was prevented from leaving the area he was in, and people were shouting at him and grabbing at him. He wears a Hidden Disability lanyard and card explaining not to do that on it.
Otherwise, he comes across as "normal". He is highly educated, holds down a good job, runs his home and is in a relationship. We joke when we call his meltdowns his "Hulk" moments. He is very gentle, caring and friendly. When he is meltdown, he is terrified and lashes out.

Thank you. I have the support of friends and my own Mind worker. Mind have been amazing during all of this.

@W0rri3d What’s the delay in getting a solicitor, is it financial concerns? I’d assume because the nature of criminal law he should be able to get one instantly. They should be able to push for the appropriate adult too I should think?

He is not delaying the interview, but wants his own solicitor (not duty) and an appropriate adult sorted first.

I suspect they’re just wanting to scare him and will not take this any further tbh but he shouldn’t delay going up there much longer.

So he started throwing things after people started grabbing him? What was he doing before that led to people shouting or grabbing at him?

Gently, OP, I know you have more immediate concerns but, when this has passed, I suggest you and your son work on alternative ways to handle these moments in future. It would be such a shame if a moment resulted in someone getting hurt and hurt his career and life that is going quite well because of it. I'm sure he's worked very hard to have such success in life but autistic people are not immune from consequences in employment and life over actions.

My child doesn't have these kind of meltdowns but does like to make their own rules. I've had to explain to them that I can't protect them from consequences by 'being Mum' and talking the powers that be round. I'd be beside myself if they were sat at a police station knowing how hard that situation would be for them.

But what happened to the extent that he was being stopped from leaving an area? I think the difficulty is that if he was presenting as being violent and aggressive to members of the public people aren't going to be looking for lanyards for information. What was the initial incident?

Autistic people in meltdown have no control over their actions so no amount of explanation about consequences will help. I don't see that OP's loved one could do any more to prevent ignorant members of the public exacerbating the situation than they already do.

His solicitor has just been slow in responding. They replied earlier today saying they will meet him at the police station when he goes in.

He has said that he feels like he has been spoken down to and treated like an idiot by the police during this.

He entered a community hub place to meet myself and a few others. He was overwhelmed by the activity in the town centre (and had just made a GP appointment as he was signed off with burnout). When he entered the hub, he just shouted some frustration up into the air. It was not aimed at anyone. He has done it before and when left to leave/cool off, will be ok. This hub prides itself on being inclusive to all and understanding ND. He then went to approach me for reassurance. The staff in the hub know him, and have said when overwhelmed, he can go to the back of the building to cool off and then go home. Another customer had a go at him for shouting, and went to push him to get him to leave. Then others did the same.... shouting at him and grabbing at him. I yelled several times to leave him be, to let him go out the back and go home. I said he was autistic, and that shouting and touching will make things worse. Like I said, he wears a card/lanyard stating this. No one listened and he lashed out... one of the staff threw him to the floor and restrained him (not trained in it at all, and should not have happened). This resulted in several other people piling on and sitting on him. He was just crying "no no no" on the floor. It was fucking awful.

The police don't need to interview him to put a file forward to the CPS, if they have CCTV evidence, which is compelling, and witnesses, there may be no need to interview him, interviews are usually used to cause someone to incriminate themselves if the evidence is shaky or circumstancial.

The invitation to interview under caution will probably to be to lay the charge out rather than gathering more evidence.

I'm assuming the charge will be a public order offence and possibly criminal damage if others goods were damaged.

Given he did it, it's caught on CCTV and witnessed, theres not much point of entering anything other than a guilty plea, it will probably end up with a community sentence.

Mental health won't be a very good defence, because if it's accepted that he did this because of mental deficiency he risks being sectioned as a risk to the public, I'd rather pay a fine or pick some litter!

This ship has sailed, he needs to make sure he controls his emotions, an autistic meltdown is real, but doesn't let you off a criminal offence, in fact no mental health defence does, at best it just gets you sectioned and sent to Rampton rather than The Scrubbs, neither of which will happen here, he will get a justifiable bollocking from the magistrate, a fine and a record.

Yes, I'm aware of this, but they are also not exempt from consequences.

It sounds like OP's son was provoked in what should have been a safe space, so hopefully, if this is a first time, he'll just get a warning.

Another customer had a go at him for shouting, and went to push him to get him to leave. Then others did the same.... shouting at him and grabbing at him

The customers shouldn’t have did this. It was for the staff to deal with really.

I reckon they might decide it’s not in the public interest to pursue this further but That’s good he has sorted the solicitor now and can use the opportunity to be interviewed to explain things including how the customers touched him first.

From your explanation it very much sounds like he was the victim of attempted and actual assaults and was defending himself. I think you need to contact the police yourself and report this. I know from previous experience some police have a view of autistic people as more likely to be the aggressor rather than what is actually more likely, the victim. Autistic people are extremely vulnerable to abuse.

Where does the throwing things come in to your explanation of what happened?

Is it possible that due to the purpose of the hub that the other customers who reacted also may be ND? Sounds like an extreme reaction if he was only shouting out into the ether alone.

He was in meltdown due to people shouting and grabbing at him.
In his mind, he was being attacked.

The people who have given statements are omitting the fact he is autistic when relaying this story to countless others. They are making him out to be dangerous. He is not.

Autism is not a mental illness. Why would be be sectioned?