Confused about police action

[W0rri3d]

A loved one is potentially in trouble with the police. They had been invited to give an interview under caution, but have now been told that told that a decision on being charged etc can be made without even talking to them (is all being based on statements from the people who reported it, and CCTV). Myself and a few friends were also a witness to their "crime" and are being refused a chance to give our own statements. The police are also saying he can not have an appropriate adult if he comes into the station for interview (he is autistic, is entitled to an appropriate adult, and carries a card to say this).

BTW, the crime was having an autistic meltdown in public. My loved one was overwhelmed, tried to escape the situation but was shouted/grabbed at, so had a full meltdown involving shouting and throwing items. He was then forced to the floor by someone not even trained in restraint.

It all seems horribly unfair and one sided. The people who gave statements have since been spreading lies about him, and one is now in psychiatric hospital.

I am worried sick about all of this.

Anyone savvy with matters like this... any words of comfort or advice most welcome.

Thanks

Op

They can't simply decide they have enough evidence- they have to take ALL witness accounts.

I think you need legal advice .

That is what they have said though.. and that is without my loved one even being interviewed. Is this how the legal system works? I don't know.
It seems so unfair. If it goes to court, then maybe our statements will be taken into account.

Speak to a criminal lawyer.

If you can't speak to the oic - they can .

No that's not how it works

Police are not judge and jury - they are evidence gatherers. That's it . All the evidence not just what they want .

Speak to a criminal lawyer. They can liaise with the oic and represent your loved one at interview and ensure appropriate adult and due process is followed.

From what you're telling me - I would do this .
I know the law and I could do this
Myself but you don't and you sound d like you need good legal representation.

Ring a criminal solicitor . You don't have any facts , what the offence is , my advice is get legal representation. Best thing at this point .

Thank you. I have sent him links tonight, and hopefully he will fight this. He seems so sad and resigned. I am so worried about him.
Meltdowns are not a choice.

Can you speak to a
Solicitor on his behalf or get his mind worker to do so ?

I think you're out of your depth - this needs someone who knows what they are doing. (No offence intended)

You are right... I am out of my depth. I have bad experiences with the cops myself (and also need an an appropriate adult myself, so calling them, they think I am an idiot).

His solicitor says they will meet him when he has his interview. Mind have been amazing though. Managers involved now. We shall see. I feel sick, my loved one feels sick.

I keep worrying he will end up in prison! And the people who did give statements have been saying they hope he gets locked up...

@capabilityfrowns thank you for answering my question, and for all the helpful advice and support you have given OP.

@capabilityfrowns I know it's just staggering. Unfortunately I have been on the receiving end of some awful treatment by police, here as the accused but also as the victim of serious crime. I have also had some great support from very good officers in other situations. Sadly though, my experiences have made me very wary and I just can't trust the police as a whole in the way I once did. It's such a crap situation for the good officers who try to do their best, and in my experience sometimes end up on the wrong side of their superiors for their pains. A dreadful situation for us all.

Oh op - please believe me unless he's really hurt someone he isn't going to end up in prison !

He's had a meltdown and thrown stuff . Unless he's really hurt someone- ? Try not to worry . It's a very minor public order offence love - it's not a big issue .

You sound like you really care and want to help but just aren't quite sure how - so my advice now is get mind to get him a solicitor and see if they can act as appropriate adult if he has a designated worker ? Just get him a solicitor. They will take it from here - they know the law - they know due process- they'll act in his best interests.

Try not to worry . It's not a major crime ! It's a public order offence and he has mitigation. Let a solicitor sort it now and absolve yourself of trying to sort it because it's obviously stressing you to high heaven ! It's a minor offence by the sounds of it . Get some rest .

Makes my heart just sink reading this. I'm so sorry .

I do worry where our police service is going . 8 years till I retire and can't come fast enough.

Thank you. He did not hurt anyone... he was the one was was grabbed at and restrained on the floor like an animal. It was very distressing!

I want to help, you are right. I would willingly give a statement to the police but they are saying they don't need any. It is all so one sided.

Ok so 1) this is a minor public order offence and he's not going to prison!

2. if you were a witness taking your statement is not negotiable! Get a solicitor. They'll sort this out . All witnesses should have a statement taken whether for or against the suspect . It's all evidence . They cannot choose to bias an investigation by omitting evidence! A solicitor will sort this . I'm sad to read this because that's not justice . All evidence should be taken .

Get armed love . Get a solicitor for him . Or get mind to do so.

Thank you so much @capabilityfrowns . You have helped a lot!
I am going to try and sleep now. I am seeing my loved one tomorrow after his Mind appointment, so will see how that goes.

Good luck love . Sleep well , try not to worry .

The law doesn't get into the 'nuance' of why either.

If you attack someone, you attack someone.

If you assault someone, you assault someone.

If you kill someone, you kill someone.

Why doesn't really come into it in English law....or any law really.

He could be arrested when he goes for the "meeting" with the police.

He could also be badgered into accepting a caution. Never do this, a caution gets held as a criminal record, so you'll be better off going to court, where you've got the chance to put your side across.

I absolutely agree with this. My eldest son is autistic, along with ADHD/ODD, and some damage from lack of oxygen at birth. He would probably act similarly if treated this way.

In this situation, I would be pursuing my own complaint regarding assault, especially to the member of staff who restrained him. And I would absolutely insist on my statement being taken as a witness. You can do that just by going to the appropriate station, it does not need to be done through your son.

I'm so sorry this happened OP. Autism should be handled so much better now, particularly as he was known in this place and wearing his lanyard. Sadly it isn't, as we know too well.

Wishing you both the best of luck. 💐

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/police-interviews

I work in a mental health setting with adults with asd and when they have ended up in court for situations similar to this - I’ve produced a report for them to use. However, for more serious cases I’ve recommended they appoint an expert witness to testify on their behalf

Yes, that seemed likely to me as well.

This is completely wrong. Why very much does come into it. These offences require criminal intent. If there is no criminal intent, you are not guilty.

if this does go to court, surely we can say our piece?

@W0rri3d - Yes. Regardless of whether the police have taken a statement from you, the defence can call you to give evidence in court.

Happy to be corrected, but surely that can't be right otherwise everyone would use 'I didn't mean to' as their defence?

My father witnessed an air rage incident a few years back and was asked to give a witness statement and agreed. An officer came to house and REFUSED to take the statement as my father wouldn't say what he wanted him to say. It is very similar to this case, the police were only interested in taking statements from people who saw the person as the aggressor, not as somebody who had been provoked.

My father tried to complain but nobody cared. He even contacted the man's solicitor but they never got back to him, probably decided to plead guilty under the circumstances. I'm afraid not everyone follows the rules.