Confused about police action

[W0rri3d]

A loved one is potentially in trouble with the police. They had been invited to give an interview under caution, but have now been told that told that a decision on being charged etc can be made without even talking to them (is all being based on statements from the people who reported it, and CCTV). Myself and a few friends were also a witness to their "crime" and are being refused a chance to give our own statements. The police are also saying he can not have an appropriate adult if he comes into the station for interview (he is autistic, is entitled to an appropriate adult, and carries a card to say this).

BTW, the crime was having an autistic meltdown in public. My loved one was overwhelmed, tried to escape the situation but was shouted/grabbed at, so had a full meltdown involving shouting and throwing items. He was then forced to the floor by someone not even trained in restraint.

It all seems horribly unfair and one sided. The people who gave statements have since been spreading lies about him, and one is now in psychiatric hospital.

I am worried sick about all of this.

Anyone savvy with matters like this... any words of comfort or advice most welcome.

Thanks

Yes, it is right, but "I didn't mean to" generally isn't going to work as a defence.

There are some offences that are strict liability, i.e. you are guilty regardless of whether you had criminal intent.

Where criminal intent is required, saying "I didn't mean to" is generally not enough to throw reasonable doubt on the prosecution case. If you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, killing them, "I didn't mean to" isn't going to get you anywhere. At the minimum, you were criminally negligent, which is a form of criminal intent.

If you are working at height, you have taken reasonable precautions, but you accidentally drop something, killing or seriously injuring someone below you, you are not guilty of any crime. That is an accident. If, however, you deliberately drop something, either intending to cause injury or not caring whether you injure someone, you are guilty.

As a general rule, criminal intent can be inferred from the defendant's actions. However, that is rebuttable - it is open to the defendant to show that they did not have any criminal intent. But simply saying, "I didn't mean to" isn't going to be enough. They need to convince the jury that their actions were innocent.

It makes him look violent. And the police are saying that is the only "evidence" they need
So he was acting violent. You seem to want to dismiss it. There might have been reasons for it, but violence is violence when you are on the recieving end of it.

He had a meltdown and might have not been able to do trol it but if that's the case, why didn't he ring you before entering the premises, shouting and scaring people so that they felt they had to act?

It's understandable that you see the situation from his perspective and it must be very scary but the outcome of violence can't just be erased.

Thought I would give an update.

Loved one has been permitted to have an appropriate adult. His interview has been booked (on his birthday of all dates!). His Mind worker will be going with him. She is very experienced, both professionally and personally, with autism.

The lady who rang the police on him, and gave statements, is now in a MH ward with psychosis. She has has made up accounts of what my loved one did, along with fabricating a whole relationship with someone else. She is very unwell.
I have urged my loved one to not accept a caution.

There has been great advice on this thread, and I thank those of you for that... but the people saying people with ASD can be sectioned for meltdowns etc... there will be people reading this that are now scared to even go out. My loved one has been sleeping in his clothing, with his hidden disabilities lanyard around his neck, with his Autism Alert Card in his hand. He has been terrified that the police will bash his door in any second. They have his address, and have not done so.. so that is a reassurance at least.
He is in his 50s.... people don't get hospitalised for ASD at that age. PLEASE stop scare mongering about this.

Why do you call him "my loved one' rather than 'my friend' 'my brother' 'my partner' or whatever he is to you? Very odd.

Whether she has made something up or not, if they’ve caught him behaving in a certain way on cctv or other witnesses then he too will have to be spoken to.

Someone having psychosis doesn’t mean they’re a liar, poor lady

Weird isn’t it.

o/p good news that the police seem to have done a u-turn and are now interviewing and allowing an appropriate adult.

was it someone getting the wrong end of the stick, or what made them decide not to just charge him without as in your o/p?

I am so very sorry to read this thread. Seriously shocked at the absolute shit some posters have posted. I really hope you get his sorted. Some of the advice has been very good. I suggest you cut and paste the whole thread into word, and keep the helpful points, which have legal advice and links.

The police's view of this is shocking. It makes me so sad, and so angry. Disgraceful behaviour. How had this been allowed to get this far? Sincerely hope this is resolved OP.

Do NOT, whatever you do, allow him to accept a caution. Without careful thought, and advice from solicitor. I've got a terrible feeling about this that they will try and pin a caution on him, which would be so wrong and so unjustified.

An update.

Seeing as a few people are weirded out by me referring to him as my loved one... he is my boyfriend.

Anyway, he had an interview under caution. Was advised by his solicitor to go 'no comment' throughout, which he did. He was accused of things that he genuinely could not remember. Not due to the passage of time, but because he was in meltdown and his mind was in a black out mode at the time. CCTV was no good, so not evidence.
He was offered a caution. He didn't accept it (would not admit guilt to something he can't recall doing). So it is probably going to go to court.
The investigating officer is now reaching out to get other statements, which is good I hope.
He gave her the numbers of the people who were with him. 3 of us. Only 1 has been contacted so far.

The investigating officer is now reaching out to get other statements

Good to hear that they might finally be doing their job. They are required to pursue all reasonable lines of inquiry, including those that point away from the suspect. Their refusal to take statements from some witnesses is a clear breach of that duty.

Well, it has gone wrong.

3 of us offered our contact details. The investigating officer got in touch with the person that had the least involvement. No one else was contacted, and my boyfriend has now received notice it is going to court.
Can we give statements via his solicitor?

No, it really doesn’t.

If they have actual video of him being agressive/violent, and the circumstances around it, the fact they're taking it to court must mean they feel they have a case? Or do you think that your loved one can kick off and alls ok?

His solicitor can call you as witnesses.

No video/CCTV.

You said earlier that there was CCTV footage which made him look violent?

It was too fuzzy or whatever. Was not admissible as evidence.

To take it to court they have evidence. Otherwise it is No Further Action.

It sounds like he was violent and aggressive in public. The reasons why don't matter. I say this as an nd person with mental health issues.

You've been pretty vague too. What were the circumstances? Who restrained him?

He was restrained by a volunteer in the hub we were in.
Said volunteer was not trained in restraint at all. He was pinned to the floor and left. My boyfriend does find it helpful to lie in the floor as a way to self regulate. I did sit with him for a while.

Is this hub place, whatever it is, the only place he gets overwhelmed in? It sounds like it happens regularly, yet he holds down a job where presumably this doesn't happen?

In the past, the staff in the hub have been very understanding and have helped him. They have moved him to a quiet area until he has calmed down.
This place has a sticker on the entrance saying it is a "safe space". A lot of the staff and volunteers are ND.
On this occasion, it was a customer that initially confronted him when he started to kick off. And it was the customer's GF that called the police.

His job is purely WFH. He goes out and about as a break from work.

And since the incident, there have been lies spread about both him and me. He is getting support from MH places and advocacy from an charity that supports people with ASD/LD... but from what I gather from him today, it was more leaning to LD and that made him feel really stupid. They wanted to send him on a course about how to send emails and make shopping lists. FFS.

it has been been having a HUGE impact on my MH... Staff in the hub want me banned for supporting him. It is ridiculous. I get pointed out and whispered about.
The lady that called the police on him was since admitted to a MH unit for psychosis... and now she might be called to court. She is now denying calling the cops to start with, and is saying she can't recall any of it.
It is all so messed up.

I'm afraid that yelling, grabbing at, pushing and sitting on a person who attempting to get away IS assault no matter what you think.

Good luck in court OP. Your partner's solicitor can call you as a witness for the defence if it gets to that point.

The reasons do matter. For someone to be guilty of assault, they must have intended unlawful violence or been reckless. In other words, they must have criminal intent. The action on its own is not enough. From OP's posts, it appears her boyfriend did not have the necessary criminal intent.