DM is homeless and penniless

[Pottlee]

I don’t know where to post this really, so apologies if it’s the wrong place.

My mum has been carer for her mum for maybe 5 years. Grandmother has now sadly passed away. Inheritance wise she has left a small amount behind, which is split between her two 60 ish year old ‘children’ (my mum and my uncle) - around £5-10k each. Mum and her brother have a fractured relationship but showed themselves to get on for the sake of their mum. Not sure it’s going to be as hunkydory now their mother has passed.

Now to the main point - my mum has nothing, like nothing to her name. She has no home (lived with her mum as carer), no money (other than the small inheritance) and no income at all. She has never worked so had made no contributions. She also had never claimed any benefits. The home she lived in with her mother will be sold and that money will go to an equity release company and to pay off a load of other debts.
What on earth happens to her now?
My uncle says she’s my responsibility now, but I would hate for that to be the case in that I don’t have room for her to live at my house, and harsh as it sounds I don’t want to become responsible for her for the rest of her life - hats off to everyone who can do it, but the idea of me having to care for her the way that she cared for her mum is just a no I’m afraid. We are close in a way but don’t get on in another. I couldn’t live with her. It would make my life unbearable and no doubt spell the end of my marriage because my DH couldn’t tolerate her daily either. My 2 DC love her but daily it would be disastrous. She is very lazy, judgemental, negative and nasty. And as I said would be able to make very little/no financial contribution.

So 1. Is she really regarded my responsibility now? 2. What should she do with regards of somewhere to live (she has no money for that) and income for the rest of her life? Is she not entitled to anything as she’s made no contributions or claimed anything at any point?

I’m aware I may come across as heartless because I don’t want to take her on so to speak, but I do want to help her set herself up somehow if she can. I’m just not in a position to be able to offer a place to live or financially.

please if anyone can advise who she can speak to or what she can do. Thank you.

Exactly

So your dad died and you describe her as having a baby and pissing around, how bloody lovely are you?

I wonder if the equity release company knew she was living there, given no one else did? Would this impact her right to remain in the property?

This situation has the potential to get complicated, potentially, in part because it seems the people involved are not clear about their rights and responsibilities.

The equity release paperwork needs checking.

@SutWytTi I agree. However its still not OPs problem either way! Her mother should of organised herself. OP hasn't stated anywhere on the thread that her mother has been out of work due to poor health. We could all take poorly at 60... difference is most of us HAVE worked all our bloody lives. Slight difference.

@MummyInTheNecropolis you sound such a sensible and loving daughter. Well done for helping your Mum with all the practicalities of navigating a new chapter of her life.

It sounds like dm was 18 when OP was born so surely she would have been in her 30s when DD was independent so plenty of time to sort herself out with a job

What on earth is your problem? This is a really weird reaction.

OP thank you for the update, all makes perfect sense and I hope you've found the advice here useful. Ignore the poster itching to attack you, there's always one.

Do bore off. I don't think your lift goes all the way to the top floor.

Exactly this 100%

😂

School holidays, innit.

@Pottlee

Just out of curiosity, has your mother said what she thinks/expects is going to happen? Because if she expects that she'll move in with you and you'll support her financially and be her carer when the time comes, then you're going to have an uphill battle getting her to do anything that doesn't align with her expectations, especially if it involves paid work. I'm afraid you're going to have to be extremely blunt with her. And I agree, benefits/housing aside, you cannot allow her to move in with you, even temporarily. You don't want to open that can of worms.

I'm not sure what an 'equity release' is, but I assume it's the same as what we call in the US a 'reverse mortgage'. These 'instruments' are carefully calculated to end up with the mortgage company's lien pretty much equalling whatever the house is worth. Plus the mortgage company isn't really interested in 'making a lot of money' in the house sale. They just want it sold for enough to get their money back. In other words, the 'heirs' get nothing. That's how they make their money. But then, a reverse mortgage is usually done because the homeowner needs extra money to live on, not so that their family has an inheritance. Here, a reverse mortgage is considered a 'last resort' and most 'heirs' realize that any possibility of an inheritance is going down the tubes. So it's not surprising to me that there will be nothing left after the 'equity release' company gets their lien paid off.

By any chance was she put on the equity release with her mother? The reason I ask is that (again, in the US) if a person is on the reverse mortgage with the primary 'borrower' in most cases the house can't be sold until they also die or move out.

And yes she has a GP, so I guess she has that registered against my grandmothers address. Passport yes but long since expired. NI number yes and birth certificate. But not on electoral role, nor any utility bills or mobile phone. No bank account. Not listed as living there for council tax. Believe me when I say many people over the years have told her to sort things out but she’s never been willing to and has been living off her mother - before that she was being financially supported by DP in a foreign country.
I appreciate that she brought me up as a young single mum and then looked after my grandmother in her last years. However I have seen first hand how lazy, selfish and disorganised she has been at all other junctures of life. I would take her in rather than see her on the literal streets but it feels like she’s expecting someone to bail her out because she never made plans for herself. This outcome wasn’t unexpected, she ju at chose to ignore it. I could take her in, but for my own MH, my marriage, my kids, I don’t feel I can. And quite frankly when she’s made the decisions she has I don’t see why I should.

Of course the OP will have to make her own decision where on the spectrum between 'housing her mother for the rest of her life' and 'telling her to go fuck herself' she wants to be.

No one is responsible for another adult, but sometimes in families people opt to take a little interest in each other.

When you say 'we could all take poorly at 60' - statistically it is less likely the wealthier you are, that is just the reality of the way money works.

The OP's mother has made extremely unusual and unwise choices, definitely, and the consequences of that will fall on her now which will not be easy. It will also be hard on the OP to observe the fallout.

Your mum seems naive. Perhaps she says there is only £5-10k each left because that is what her brother is telling her.

I would have a family meeting. Ask that the will, equity release docs and your mum's bank statements are brought. Check together what the will says - equal split? - and check how much was taken as equity release and when and where it went.

How much do you estimate the house to be worth? Can there really be nothing left?

Who handled your gran's finances? If your uncle it could be for instance that your mum earned £1k a month for looking after her mum and your uncle similarly got £1k so he was treated equally yet did nothing for his money. That's not fair treatment of your mum.

If your mum stays in the house till it's sold who will pay the council tax, utilities etc? Does he want her to leave now so there is nothing to pay? Does the house legally belong to the equity release company now that grandma has died? What do they have to say about getting vacant possession?

Your uncle may be hoping you just take her in so all these questions are never asked. Ask them.

Ok well I hope your grandmother wasn't claiming single occupancy discount on her council tax or severe disability premium on pension credit fraudulently if your mum was not declared as living there, otherwise that could be another problem to face. She will need to open up a bank account asap to claim Universal credit.

Apply to council for homeless application and she will be put in emergency accommodation. Hotel or b&b. They're shit holes but her only option if you say you can't take her in. They've got more places for over 55s so she shouldn't be stuck there for too long. She needs a wake up call by the sound of it

If your uncle knows that you are going to work with your mother towards her becoming fully independent via CAB and whatever else is needed to ensure she can stand on her own two feet, then he may also be more helpful towards her. Presumably both he and you are somewhat fearful of her turning up on either doorstep with a suitcase the day the house is sold

I have not read the whole thread so this may already have been said countless times. It seems that your mother was financially dependent on her mother. In that case she would have a claim on the estate and potentially would be entitled to have all of whatever little money there is, assuming her brother is solvent and was not dependent on the deceased.

She may have brought you up @Pottlee but she didn't do you or herself any favours by failing to make provision for you/her.

Your uncle doesn't have a responsibility to her either. It's just a shame really that the house wasn't willed in such a way that she got to live out her days in it. That would have been the best solution really but it is what it is.

You've been given some great advice, and I am sure it will all work out. Do not be guilted though into taking her into your home. I think that would be disastrous for all concerned, from the sound of things - I think it must be incredibly difficult to go back to living with a parent in adulthood, no matter how close the relationship. My late father was an actual saint, as he lived his entire married life with his MIL and I don't think they ever exchanged a single cross word.

As I said, I'm around your mum's age, and I would hate to think I needed to be 'cared for'!!! I'm totally independent, have always worked and still do fulltime. I find it hard to understand what your mother has done with her life, and it's a bit sad really, as apart from having you, it sounds pretty unfulfilling? I'd like to think she could enter a whole new lease of life, now that she has nobody to please but herself.

I’m going to have a sit down and make notes on all that’s been said and present her with it

A wise idea, OP, but since she has capacity I'd make clear that it's up to her to do whatever she wants with it

You may well get the waterworks and "Ooooo I don't understand these things", but that's the time to signpost her to a support organisation

As practically everyone's said, the key point is for neither you nor your uncle to do everything. It might appear to help in the short term, but all you'd be doing is to buy yourselves even more problems

That's ridiculous. She was only financially dependent on her mum because she didn't claim benefits she was entitled to claim as a carer. That is not the uncle's fault.

I don't think I'd be too concerned about the council tax, as the net saving since she didn't claim any benefits would be much larger. I know it doesn't work that way, but....

I'm baffled as to why she didn't though!

@Pottlee early 60’s a lot of people are still working, she isn’t old and you could have her for the next 30years! Someone with no phone and bank account really wants people to do everything for them.

the government, as everyone else said, will not make you take her on, you may be her next of kin but that comes with no responsibility. You have no room in your house. Also we have told parents we will not be having them to live with us, it just wouldn’t work.

You may well get the waterworks and "Ooooo I don't understand these things", but that's the time to signpost her to a support organisation

Yes a good idea might be for the OP to do a lot of signposting and setting up of appointments with the relevant people, she could even go with her mum but then not go into the appointment itself. This way she is being 'supportive' without taking responsibility.

Many areas have advocacy services specifically for people of the OP's mum's age, they could accompany to appointments and help with note taking etc.

Serious question - if all else fails would you really see your own mother on the street?

Also, for everyone saying she should get a job at in her early 60's, please do tell me where from and not "waitress, supermarket, carer" show me job adverts where quals and real experience arent needed. Carer for a relative at home, doesnt make you qualified.

My mum, who worked as a legal secretary couldnt even get a partime job in a charity shop as a volunteer without sales experience.

Totally understand she might be a knob, and i would probs be horrified of my mum had to come stay with me.......but she's still your mum and to be honest it sounds like you had your heads buried in the sand for the last 5yrs about her living arrangements and future etc.