DM is homeless and penniless

[Pottlee]

I don’t know where to post this really, so apologies if it’s the wrong place.

My mum has been carer for her mum for maybe 5 years. Grandmother has now sadly passed away. Inheritance wise she has left a small amount behind, which is split between her two 60 ish year old ‘children’ (my mum and my uncle) - around £5-10k each. Mum and her brother have a fractured relationship but showed themselves to get on for the sake of their mum. Not sure it’s going to be as hunkydory now their mother has passed.

Now to the main point - my mum has nothing, like nothing to her name. She has no home (lived with her mum as carer), no money (other than the small inheritance) and no income at all. She has never worked so had made no contributions. She also had never claimed any benefits. The home she lived in with her mother will be sold and that money will go to an equity release company and to pay off a load of other debts.
What on earth happens to her now?
My uncle says she’s my responsibility now, but I would hate for that to be the case in that I don’t have room for her to live at my house, and harsh as it sounds I don’t want to become responsible for her for the rest of her life - hats off to everyone who can do it, but the idea of me having to care for her the way that she cared for her mum is just a no I’m afraid. We are close in a way but don’t get on in another. I couldn’t live with her. It would make my life unbearable and no doubt spell the end of my marriage because my DH couldn’t tolerate her daily either. My 2 DC love her but daily it would be disastrous. She is very lazy, judgemental, negative and nasty. And as I said would be able to make very little/no financial contribution.

So 1. Is she really regarded my responsibility now? 2. What should she do with regards of somewhere to live (she has no money for that) and income for the rest of her life? Is she not entitled to anything as she’s made no contributions or claimed anything at any point?

I’m aware I may come across as heartless because I don’t want to take her on so to speak, but I do want to help her set herself up somehow if she can. I’m just not in a position to be able to offer a place to live or financially.

please if anyone can advise who she can speak to or what she can do. Thank you.

OP, as harsh as it might seem you need to consider yourself here. Your mother must get involved in sorting out this mess, however hard it might be for her - she's chosen to abdicate from real life by always relying on other people to sort her out - the men in her life, her mother to provide a roof over her head, YOU to sort her out now Gran's no longer around.

She's become a professional user and it has to stop: you have your own life to live and the way things are if you step in to 'organise' her now you'll be doing it for the rest of her life. Think carefully - you need to look after your own well-being.

Agree. She needs to work like everyone else who needs to and can. I'd love to give up work, but I know I can't yet. It grates to see others take advantage of the system unfairly.

I think the 'problem' OP may be facing is the old "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them get a job". And that's probably what she's worried to death about. That there will be no available social housing and with no regular source of income (or not sufficient income) there will be no places to rent. What happens then?

Saying 'well, she'll just have to work' may not work if OP's mum is conditioned to having someone else support her, and that's just what this sounds like. She's gone from one husband/partner to another then another and finally to her own mother. Her mindset is probably "Well someone will just have to take me in" and she'll expect that someone to be either her daughter or her brother. I think that's why her brother is so anxious that OP take her in, so he doesn't have to be the one to say 'No'. Will OP be happy to see her mother in a homeless shelter or will she 'cave'? And is that what her mother knows will happen?

I have a relative (no longer in touch) who was bound and determined to be a SAHM. It worked for a few years until there was an economic downturn and her DH lost his job. The job he found didn't pay enough for her not to work. Would she get a job? She would not. Even facing foreclosure, she still wouldn't. She simply said she 'needed' to be home with her children and it was for her DH to figure out how that happened. OP's mum is probably the same. It's someone else's problem.

My relative's DH eventually left her when he couldn't take the financial stress anymore so she had to get a job in the end. Maybe OP's mum will have to hit 'rock bottom' like my relative did before she wakes up.

Well to be fair, OP's mother hasn't taken advantage of "the system". Possibly quite the opposite since other than the failure to register for, and pay, Council Tax she may well have not been claiming benefits or allowances she might have been entitled to. Until now, as AcrossthePond55 said, she's gone from man to man and finally her mother.

However I do think that if OP wants mother to take control of her life then as a first step OP or OP's uncle are going to have to get her either a PAYG mobile phone , which they top up for her when needed, or the cheapest contract phone which they pay for.

Without a phone OP's mother won't be able to make any start on getting advice or finding a job. Without a bank account and with no presence on the electoral roll she won't be able to get a contract phone. She could buy a PAYG phone but she'll need a bank account to top it up.

She doesn't need a bank account to top up a PAYG mobile. You can still get vouchers in all the shops, post office, anywhere that does PayPoint for bills etc. Can pay for vouchers in cash or card. Putting the voucher on the phone is very easy too. Call 150 for EE, 2345 for Vodafone or 4444 for O2 then enter the voucher number.

OP's mother doesn't have to worry about previous council tax. She's liable for it all from the date of grandmother death as she's the person living there. Same as tenants pay the council tax on a rental and not the homeowner. She needs to claim the 25% single person reduction for being only one adult living there and also Council Tax Reduction from the council as a benefit, because of low income.

Previous council tax was down to the grandmother. If granny was doing fraud by claiming the 25% discount when there were two adults living there, well nothing can be done about that now because you can't prosecute or fine a dead person.

OP's mother wasn't even a lodger but even if she was, lodger's don't pay council tax, the homeowner does because the homeowner still lives there. It doesn't get split between the people living there only one person pays it.

I guess if you jointly own property with a spouse you're both "jointly and severally" (think that's the term) liable for it. Meaning the council can chase either of you through the courts for the whole amount, if it isn't paid. This isn't the case for OP's mum because she never owned the property.

She can register online for the electoral roll, it's easy.

If she doesn't get social housing for whatever reason and ends up needing private rental the council will help her find a landlord that accepts benefits and help her with a deposit if necessary, so long as she engages with the homelessness procedure.

She'll probably only be able to afford a room in a shared house or HMO, unless she lives in an area where rents aren't too far over the Local Housing Allowance (housing benefit for private housing).

She'll have a regular income for rental, it'll be Universal Credit. Unless she's stupid enough to get herself sanctioned for non-compliance.

If she doesn't want to a) get a job or b) jump through the hoops to get benefits, she's free to live on the street. It's not actually illegal to be homeless I don't think. I never heard of anyone being arrested purely for that, anyway.

If she does end up on the street, she can still claim UC when her period of being sanctioned by being kicked off it has ended, but obviously you don't get the housing elements because you're not paying rent. You don't need an address to claim benefits, you give the local jobcentre as your address and check there for DWP post regularly (you can't use them as an address for other post I don't think).

The bank can mark your account with a fraud risk warning meaning the bank won't send out bank statements to your last address (which will remain on your bank account, because you can't have a bank account without an address) but you can still use the account the same as usual with the card and in branch, probably online/telephone banking too.

If you're homeless and don't have a bank account, the jobcentre will issue you a Giro cheque for you to cash at the post office and hope you don't get mugged. If one chooses it is possible to live on the streets, though I can't imagine that's a pleasant life. You can get a GP still for healthcare.

I guess the council could sue the grandmother estate for unpaid council tax if there was any fraud going on before death. That just means less inheritance for OP's mother and uncle. OP's mother won't get in trouble.

Was she able to start her claim for Universal Credit today?

I hope so, it will be the start of firmer foundations for her.

How are things going, OP?

Thank you for asking.

I tried to talk to her about it when I saw her on Monday, but she started crying and said she was too upset (about her DMs death) to talk about it. I said she needed to stop burying her head in the sand as she is in a very real situation now where things NEED sorting. She said she knows, but not now. I said yes now. She started crying more and was behaving like a kid, saying “stop being mean to me, I’ve told you I can’t do this now.” and she left. Honestly I despair. On one hand I think “sort it out yourself then!” but obviously I know that she won’t. I have spoken to her twice on the phone since then but she was very short with me and ended the call as soon as she could. I predict she will now avoid me for the foreseeable as she knows I will bring it up again.

She really seems to have extreme avoidance. I tend toward that myself but eventually can face facts. Has she ever seen any kind of therapist? There seems to be some extreme trauma and immaturity going on there. Not an easy way to live and very difficult for you to deal with.

Has the bank been in touch about taking possession of the house?

Kudos to you for tackling this. I know it's not easy.

This is a great reply, and resonated with me a lot.

I don't want to turn this reply into something about me, but I understood your comment well as I am now in a kind of (oddly similar) situation myself, whereby I've been a SAHM for nearly 6 years, and relief heavily on my DH and my parents, along with child benefits, for my income. Had it not been for this, I'd have had to found work again much sooner (I had a career in publishing for 15 years before I had a head injury and post concussion syndrome, then another injury from prescribed off label antipsychotic after the head injury, which resulted in a serious neurological involuntary movement disorder).

Having been told by my husband and parents that I need to look for work again in September once my youngest DD starts school, I am literally petrified. I didn't have much confidence in myself or career before I was unwell; but now I feel doubly lacking and my self esteem has plummeted somewhat. Obviously this isn't quite the same as the OP's DM, but in a way, I understand how hard it is to get back into the workplace, after a long time absent.

I guess I'm used to having a life of leisure, and my finances taken care of. I'm fully aware this is privileged/mollycoddled/spoilt etc and that I nedd to grow up, get a grip and be an adult who works. Having been through the trauma of ill health and being out of my industry for so long has left its mark, anx I'd be lying if I said that I would love to go back. I am trying to find the confidence to use my time constructively, but most days I find myself wishing I didn't have to use my broken, useless brain to muddle through and find work.

I hope your DM will be ok, OP.

Sorry for making this reply totally self-centered, it was more a bit of empathetic response to the pp's reply about extreme avoidance of work because of trauma or similar.

OP I think you're right, she will avoid you because you are bringing up uncomfortable truths she wants to avoid. She is probably still hoping someone (a new man, you, her brother) will save her from all this. She has never really had to take responsibility for herself before. Now she's going to have to.

As previously said, she isn't your responsibility, but when the truth dawns on her she will probably come back to you, so you need to decide what you're going to do (or not do).

Can you ring the Universal Credit Helpline when you are sitting with her, using your own phone?

If you explain the situation, they may agree to speaking to her briefly for permission and then take the information required from you.

I agree it's important @Pottlee that you maintain your boundaries. Whatever the root cause of your mum's issues, the way it plays out is extremely manipulative. Whether there are mental health issues, learned 'helplessness' or whether it's plain laziness or most likely a combination of factors, at the end of the day, you can't take responsibility for her life as well as your own. She's being distant now because you're telling her the truth of the situation and she's so used to ignoring the real world and letting other people be the adults that it's extremely uncomfortable for her.

Avoidance and immaturity 100% Whether or not there is something deep rooted we will probably never know as she wouldn’t see a therapist I don’t think. It’s just so frustrating when you can see what someone needs to do to help themselves but they refuse to do it. But as the saying goes, You can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink!
No idea if the bank or whoever have been in touch, she’s not said and I’m trying to keep discussions with uncle to a minimum as to not drag myself into their dramas unless I have to.

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany Don’t apologise. Sounds a tough situation for you with your injury and also feeling that you’re in a situation that you’re not altogether comfortable with. But enjoy the life you have! I hope everything works out for you.

I feel so sorry for you, OP. I think you have to let her be, it can't be good for you to have this amount of stress and if she won't engage, you have no alternative. But keep in mind that she's probably assuming when the chips are down and there's no house to go back to, you will take her in - thus allowing her to 'avoid' the problem yet again and making it YOUR problem. She's become reliant on the 'someone will bail me out' theory because it's worked so far - so be prepared, for your own health's sake.

There was a woman in here a while back and her husband was really struggling and she said she used the phrase ‘is there anything I can do to help you with your problem’
It was a change for getting annoyed but it took the responsibility off her, and the heat out of the situation.
it also made him realise he had to actually had to sort it himself or ask for help.

Would you try that? I understand how hard it is I truly do, there have been times I have wanted to shake a certain person in my life, but what I did was call the Employee Assistance programme and got advice on how to deal with the person and it was a really positive change for me.

all the very best

obviously saying ‘is there anything I can do to help you with your problem’ *

*EXCEPT MOVING IN WITH ME BECAUSE YOU CANT EVER, NOT EVEN FOR ONE NIGHT.

(but regarding filling in forms etc I can help you if you need me to)

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany I just wanted to extend my sympathies to you. I believe from what the OP has said in her thread that her mother is capable of working. If she can get a job after not working for so long is another matter and other difficult issues worrying the OP. Forgive me but your situation sounds completely different and it seems that you have disability resulting from an injury? I don’t think you should be railroaded into finding work. If indeed any suitable job is available. Can you contact a neurological charity? They may be able to give you advice on claiming benefits. I think you have been very brave bringing up your children and looking after an home. Not at all how you describe yourself. I am sure someone much more knowledgeable than me will be along soon. Or maybe start a thread yourself for advice there are some very good people on MN who may be able to advise you.

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany wishing you all the best-that's a brave but honest post

@Pottlee

Just looking at the thread title again, Pottlee and worrying about your Mum's situation.

If she is penniless, does that mean that she doesn't have money for food?

Thanks for your concern. She will have yes, but that’s a good question as I wonder how she’s paying for it. She would always use my grandmothers bank card to buy food previously, but now that she has passed obviously not. Next time I speak to her I will enquire, but she won’t be sat with no food or she would be finding reasons to come to my house to eat.

Although I have suggested applying for Universal Credit by phone, I can see that you can also apply for it online.

Do you think that your Mum would be willing to sit with you while you apply for it online for her? I'm not sure how far away you live from her, though.

One problem might be that she will need a form of ID and I am not sure what she has.

I do think that you need to break the deadlock on this one, it you don't mind my saying so. She needs to get into the system in some way, so that she does have money and housing. It's easier to gain some direction over the situation at this stage than later, when it has escalated.

https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-to-claim

She needs to get back into the system asap. It seems counter intuitive, as she's not going to be travelling anywhere, but renewing her passport might be the easiest way to start.

She can't open a bank account or claim benefits without ID , and she doesn't have ID.

If she still has the expired passport renewing it should be straightforward. I'm assuming, given the timing of her return to the UK, that her last UK passport was issued after 1 January 1994. If before that date, she has to apply as of new. If she doesn't have the expired passport she will have to use the process for lost passports. In all scenarios it shouldn't be difficult for a UK national who previously had a passport to get another one.

I'm assuming she doesn't have a driving licence.