DM is homeless and penniless

[Pottlee]

I don’t know where to post this really, so apologies if it’s the wrong place.

My mum has been carer for her mum for maybe 5 years. Grandmother has now sadly passed away. Inheritance wise she has left a small amount behind, which is split between her two 60 ish year old ‘children’ (my mum and my uncle) - around £5-10k each. Mum and her brother have a fractured relationship but showed themselves to get on for the sake of their mum. Not sure it’s going to be as hunkydory now their mother has passed.

Now to the main point - my mum has nothing, like nothing to her name. She has no home (lived with her mum as carer), no money (other than the small inheritance) and no income at all. She has never worked so had made no contributions. She also had never claimed any benefits. The home she lived in with her mother will be sold and that money will go to an equity release company and to pay off a load of other debts.
What on earth happens to her now?
My uncle says she’s my responsibility now, but I would hate for that to be the case in that I don’t have room for her to live at my house, and harsh as it sounds I don’t want to become responsible for her for the rest of her life - hats off to everyone who can do it, but the idea of me having to care for her the way that she cared for her mum is just a no I’m afraid. We are close in a way but don’t get on in another. I couldn’t live with her. It would make my life unbearable and no doubt spell the end of my marriage because my DH couldn’t tolerate her daily either. My 2 DC love her but daily it would be disastrous. She is very lazy, judgemental, negative and nasty. And as I said would be able to make very little/no financial contribution.

So 1. Is she really regarded my responsibility now? 2. What should she do with regards of somewhere to live (she has no money for that) and income for the rest of her life? Is she not entitled to anything as she’s made no contributions or claimed anything at any point?

I’m aware I may come across as heartless because I don’t want to take her on so to speak, but I do want to help her set herself up somehow if she can. I’m just not in a position to be able to offer a place to live or financially.

please if anyone can advise who she can speak to or what she can do. Thank you.

I forgot to add, this only applies if the adult child was permanently living in the parental home. Presumably you can easily prove this?

My DM, who would have been in her eighties if she was still alive, worked night and evening shifts around my father when we were young in the seventies. She was a nurse. I think that there was a lot of that, a lot of family helping out, and a lot of 7/8/9 year olds getting themselves to school and having latchkeys at the end of the day.

Full time work was unusual for mothers of under sevens because there wasn't the formalised childcare structure available unless you had a really well paid job and a nanny. TBH it still is relatively unusual for mothers of under 5s to work full time.

@MiracleMumm wishful thinking on your part! It's absolute nonsense.

I’ve never heard of this. Do you have any more information? Other than the ability to pass on council house tenancies in certain circumstances, nothing comes up if I Google.

I don't think this applies to privately owned houses. Especially if the owner has done equity release where the company will have a contract about their share.

There are some books on the history of women working - Helen McCarthy's book Double Lives is very interesting.

The ifs report here

ifs.org.uk/publications/rise-and-rise-womens-employment-uk

notes that even in 1975 57% of women aged 25-54 were in work. No info on the part time/full time split but that is quite high.

Ifs suggests that the increase in % of women working has been mostly driven by an increase in the numbers of women with pre-school and primary aged children working.

This fits with the Double Lives book which suggests that many women in the 1950s and 1960s did not work when they had small children but returned to work when they were in secondary or older.

I suspect the number of women who have literally never worked is quite low, but haven't seen data on it.

(Sorry - off topic somewhat)

*I keep posting the stats - whatever your anecdotal experience, only 29% of women worked fulltime in 1985.

You can't extrapolate from teaching to the workforce as a whole - when the world was sexist, it was one of the few things an educated woman could do!*

Away with your 'one of the few things an educated woman could do!' malarkey. In 1985 I knew and worked with bankers, accountants and solicitors in the City of London. Many of whom were women (and some very senior indeed in their professions). It was 1985, not 1885.

I do think that mum and uncle need to be clear on the terms and conditions of the equity release. I'm not an expert but it's possible that the equity company could charge for the costs and delay involved in a forcible eviction, and if so, those costs could ramp up swiftly.

That may be a motive behind uncle's keenness to get mum taken in by OP ASAP to maximise the inheritance.

I agree with a pp legally there's a good case for mum to claim all the estate as a full dependant (and former carer, which wouldn't sway the legal rights in theory but probably would in practice). However given the sums at stake, the costs of litigation and the effect on her benefit claim it would make no sense whatsoever for her to do this. Far better to split whatever's available 50/50 and the uncle to gift her a little bit of extra money each month ex gratia if she needs it, and if he can afford it and is happy to do so. Things will be tight for her until she reaches pensionable age, and a gift of a fifty quid Tesco card or whatever once a month from uncle and OP (again if she can afford it) would mean that whatever happens she'll have food in the cupboard.

@AndWordsWhen exactly

I'd be pretty peed off if I was the uncle and this was the case.

It sounds like the dm lived there as a convenience and grudgingly helped out but she had nowhere else to go

Perhaps the uncle helped out as well but was fed up with his sponge of a sister

The stats about 29% of women working full time isn’t accurate.

Both my grandmothers worked in the 80s. My mum worked in a school. Both my Nana and my grandmother didn’t work officially. One grandmother’s worked with her husbands family. There were fishermen and she worked and got given some cash. My Nana was a cleaner, also got paid cash in hand.

I imagine there were many more people working cash in hand in the 80s then there were now. I grew up in a poor area near mum’s family’s. Dad’s family were poor as well. Many women had 1 or 2 jobs on the side.

My great grandmother had her own pub. So some of it must have been declared. But I have no idea if she would show on official lists.

and working full time is simply working full time. If they worked 2 hours less they wouldn’t show in the stats.

I know two people who have...one of which, is a vulnerable adult in his 50s (so I guess he would have had different treatment tbf).

@CrabbiesGingerBeer

I would start by contacting social services, and Age Concern. Despite her inertia, the OP’s DM sounds like she might be classed as vulnerable. Debtors on the property will use scare tactics to try and force a sale. Probably with the threat of legal action.

Well, yes, since the OP’s grandmother effectively sold them the house, I’m fairly sure legal action would be more than just threatened.

I think that the way forward is to start with the basics, which are money and housing.

She needs to call the Universal Credit Helpline which opens at 0800 tomorrow on:

0800 328 5644

She then needs to call the Housing section of the local council.

I was wondering whether it would help you to have a word with Adult Social Services tomorrow. I'm not sure whether they will consider her as a case they should take on, but it sounds to me as though she is vulnerable in some way and they may take that into consideration.

The bank IS the owner of the property now. That's what happens with equity release. It's not "scare tactics" for the bank to assert its contractual rights.

The term spinster was commonly used at least up to the 1980s to describe women who had never married probably judging by the time they had hit menopause. I remember our deputy head at secondary Miss Price always being described as a spinster and still living with her mother.

where was this? I don't think I've ever heard "spinster" being used , except possibly in a jokey way.

Spinster was a common enough term when I was child in the 70s and 80s.

Investigate local almshouses.

I was an adult in The 70s and 80sand I don't think it was a commonly used term.

FWIW I was a single parent with a baby in 1980, in a similar position to OP's mum, luckily for me I lived in a part of London which offered subsidised day care for single parents. Other people I knew used childminders or their own parents.

I got married in the late 80s, I was 19 and on my marriage certificate its states that I was a spinster! 😂

Me too (the marriage cert bit.) I wasn't 19 though.

Spinster was a common enough term when I was child in the 70s and 80s.

Of course it wasn't.

FGS!

I'd been working for years by then and no unmarried woman of any age was referred to as a spinster, except very occasionally someone who was in their 80s and then it was always a derogatory as if they hadn't been able to get a man.

It's a legal term for status on a marriage cert.

Mind you, I think I'd prefer spinster to being called a bachelor girl; never mind the abomination that is bachelorette party for a hen do.

@MiracleMumm social services aren't going to get involved with OP's mum's housing beyond telling her to report as homeless to the council. They're not going to look into investigating her finances and rights, she doesn't even have a social worker and being homeless isn't a reason in itself to need one. OP's mum hasn't lived with OP's grandmother all her life, she moved out, had relationships and lived abroad, only returning 5yrs ago.