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Original poster

DM is homeless and penniless

578 replies

Pottlee · 31/12/2023 13:29

I don’t know where to post this really, so apologies if it’s the wrong place.

My mum has been carer for her mum for maybe 5 years. Grandmother has now sadly passed away. Inheritance wise she has left a small amount behind, which is split between her two 60 ish year old ‘children’ (my mum and my uncle) - around £5-10k each. Mum and her brother have a fractured relationship but showed themselves to get on for the sake of their mum. Not sure it’s going to be as hunkydory now their mother has passed.

Now to the main point - my mum has nothing, like nothing to her name. She has no home (lived with her mum as carer), no money (other than the small inheritance) and no income at all. She has never worked so had made no contributions. She also had never claimed any benefits. The home she lived in with her mother will be sold and that money will go to an equity release company and to pay off a load of other debts.
What on earth happens to her now?
My uncle says she’s my responsibility now, but I would hate for that to be the case in that I don’t have room for her to live at my house, and harsh as it sounds I don’t want to become responsible for her for the rest of her life - hats off to everyone who can do it, but the idea of me having to care for her the way that she cared for her mum is just a no I’m afraid. We are close in a way but don’t get on in another. I couldn’t live with her. It would make my life unbearable and no doubt spell the end of my marriage because my DH couldn’t tolerate her daily either. My 2 DC love her but daily it would be disastrous. She is very lazy, judgemental, negative and nasty. And as I said would be able to make very little/no financial contribution.

So 1. Is she really regarded my responsibility now? 2. What should she do with regards of somewhere to live (she has no money for that) and income for the rest of her life? Is she not entitled to anything as she’s made no contributions or claimed anything at any point?

I’m aware I may come across as heartless because I don’t want to take her on so to speak, but I do want to help her set herself up somehow if she can. I’m just not in a position to be able to offer a place to live or financially.

please if anyone can advise who she can speak to or what she can do. Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
3luckystars · 31/12/2023 16:19

Stay strong!

DirectionToPerfection · 31/12/2023 16:21

Thudercatsrule · 31/12/2023 16:16

Why is it the OP's job to sort out the future of an adult woman who has capacity? OP has already come on here and been given a great deal of constructive advice and is trying to help. That doesn't mean she's responsible for, I repeat, an adult woman with capacity, but who just won't take responsibility for herself.

Never once said it was OP's "job" or responsibility did i? No, i didnt. But i think about my mums future, i know her situation, home, pension etc, i know that she's safe in her future even when we arent getting on, so god forbid if i wasnt here to help her if she needed it, she'd be ok, isnt that part of being a child and family?

OP has tried to help her. You can drag a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

It's not OP's fault that her mother, a grown woman with capacity, ignored all sensible advice.

Katbum · 31/12/2023 16:22

You are not responsible for your mother. Legally you are responsible for your children to a point, but that’s it. ‘The government’ can’t make you do anything. Having said that, the fact she has made no insurance contributions and is not on any electoral register will impact which benefits she is eligible for. So she needs advice from citizen’s advice or similar. In your position I’d be very clear with her that this is her problem, and that you will not be bailing her out and she needs to take control of her life.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 31/12/2023 16:23

god forbid if i wasnt here to help her if she needed it, she'd be ok, isnt that part of being a child and family?

In fairness Thudercatsrule, very few have suggested that OP shouldn't help her mum at all, hence the many excellent suggestions about how she can advise her

However there's helping and helping, and it seems very likely that mum will go right on expecting others to pick up the pieces, even to the point of housing her

Which is where the "no" comes in

TashaG · 31/12/2023 16:24

Is there a posibility that the will does say DM can live her life out in the property and Uncle knows this, hence why he's so insistant she moves in with you? Maybe he knows this is the case but wants his money?

Good luck with it all, it sounds like a frustrating thing to be going through :(

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 16:26

In actual fact, the grandmother was pretty remiss too. Did she never stop to think what was going to become of her daughter when she was no longer here? Really she should have left the house to her so that at least she would have had a roof over her head - sounds like the uncle is ok in life? Though he may well have argued that the inheritance was greatly diminished in the first place because his sister was a drain on his mother's resources?

It's a hot mess isn't it?@Pottlee by all means, support and help your mother, but don't let yourself be drawn into it unduly. This situation is down to your grandmother, your mother and your uncle. I'm so sorry - it must be so stressful!

bombastix · 31/12/2023 16:27

Uncle sounds self motivated and wants her out of the house. I would not offer a room.

LaurieStrode · 31/12/2023 16:29

ginasevern · 31/12/2023 16:06

OP, absolutely nobody is legally responsible for their parents no matter what the circumstances. Your uncle is gaslighting you. Your mother will almost certainly get an flat/bedsit in an age restricted council or maybe housing association property. These are far easier to get than regular social housing because there is a quick turnover (for obvious reasons). As she has not contributed towards her state pension, he will also need to apply for benefits. I think she will need to be in receipt of these before being housed. Her rent and council tax will be then be paid for along with dentistry and prescription charges. You need to get her cracking on all of it as soon as possible.

I agree that legally, offspring aren't responsible for their parents' old age.

But isn't one of the reasons we give so much social support to families (vs the very little available to solo and childfree people) that they will form units that care for one another, as a social good? I mean, why support people who procreate if the offspring are going to do a runner as soon as anything is asked of THEM?

Ap24 · 31/12/2023 16:31

Some of the replies are crazy. Can we please stop infantilising a grown woman in her 60s? She doesn't need OP to house and care for her.

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 16:32

@Pottlee But was your Mum actually a carer or is that a generous title?
It seems as if she was simply living with her mum, as she had nowhere else to go and no income.

It's very easy for someone to say they are a carer, when they are simply a lodger in someone's house and maybe doing a few chores.

legally, your gran was breaking the law not to list your mum on the electoral role. But I think someone here assumed she wasn't on the electoral role (not necessarily the case.)

It's not that long since there was a census and she ought to have been on that too.

LaurieStrode · 31/12/2023 16:39

Ap24 · 31/12/2023 16:31

Some of the replies are crazy. Can we please stop infantilising a grown woman in her 60s? She doesn't need OP to house and care for her.

Agree. I'm 60 and have worked fulltime for more than 40 years, own my house free and clear, volunteer, have provided lots of eldercare and end-of-life care, until recently had dogs, regularly drive hundreds of miles to help my sister with cancer, have a high-maintenance garden, and a decent social life. I'm in the midst of repainting the entire interior of my house.

Do I have all the energy as when I was 40? No. But I'm not elderly and not incapable of sustaining myself financially, logistically and careerwise. There is no reason the OP's mother has for continuing to be a leech. She has a good decade of work ahead of her, at least.

safetyfreak · 31/12/2023 16:40

Can she stay in your grandmother property? why does the property have to be sold now?

TripleDaisySummer · 31/12/2023 16:41

Ap24 · 31/12/2023 16:31

Some of the replies are crazy. Can we please stop infantilising a grown woman in her 60s? She doesn't need OP to house and care for her.

IMO the OP should suggest the groups that might help to her mother - and give her links to do any benefits/NI checking needed.

She shouldn't take her in and can't do much more than above as clearly hasn't got all the information.

ginasevern · 31/12/2023 16:42

LaurieStrode · 31/12/2023 16:29

I agree that legally, offspring aren't responsible for their parents' old age.

But isn't one of the reasons we give so much social support to families (vs the very little available to solo and childfree people) that they will form units that care for one another, as a social good? I mean, why support people who procreate if the offspring are going to do a runner as soon as anything is asked of THEM?

Show quote history

I agree. Morally I think we do owe our parents support and recognition. I have said as much on Mumsnet before, to a hail of abuse I might add.

The fact remains though that having a parent to live with you is not necessarily the right thing to do for all concerned. I cared for my elderly mother for some years but she did not come to live with me.

I was also answering the OP's question as to whether she was legally responsible for her homeless, penniless mother. To which the answer is, legally, no.

Luddite26 · 31/12/2023 16:43

Your mum will have received a national insurance number at some point. She will have a record of contributions if she received child benefit for bringing you up which I'm sure she will have.
So all these years she could have been claiming carers allowance for looking after your Grandma but your gran sounds like she covered that.
She needs to get registered with the council to be rehomed and speak to someone at HMRC about her contributions and get to the job centre to start with her benefit claims/job search they will get her sorted I'm not being judgemental your mum came from a time when it was more expected to be a sahm.
What was your uncle doing while your mum conveniently looked after their mother?

Original poster
Pottlee · 31/12/2023 16:46

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 16:32

@Pottlee But was your Mum actually a carer or is that a generous title?
It seems as if she was simply living with her mum, as she had nowhere else to go and no income.

It's very easy for someone to say they are a carer, when they are simply a lodger in someone's house and maybe doing a few chores.

legally, your gran was breaking the law not to list your mum on the electoral role. But I think someone here assumed she wasn't on the electoral role (not necessarily the case.)

It's not that long since there was a census and she ought to have been on that too.

One could argue that she was a lodger to begin with, but certainly for several years she was my grandmothers carer and did pretty much everything for her, which was an amazing thing to do because she did things for her mother that I couldn’t. She wasn’t receiving carers benefits but she really did do a lot and then everything for her.
I could take her in, I could if I absolutely had to, but quite frankly I don’t want to because that means ruining my whole life that I’m really happy with for someone who refused to make provisions for herself. It would be a ruined life for me because I’m sure my DH would leave, my kids would become unhappy as would I having her suck the life and any positivity from the home with the way she is. My grandmother dying was always going to happen and my DM has frankly made the decision to leave herself in this state.
But thanks to a lot of great advice on here it seems that I am not being forced to take her in so I’m hoping we can all live happy lives if some resolve can come from this situation.

OP posts:
Betwixpotter · 31/12/2023 16:49

The inheritance is low enough that it wont effect applying for any benefits. She should go to the council and apply for the housing register, and do an urgent homeless application. Full UC, and a 55+ flat when one becomes available. She doesn't have to be your responsibility, it's up to you how much you help her but I would at least help her get set up with the appropriate housing and benefits so that she can support herself.

spanishviola · 31/12/2023 16:51

LaurieStrode · 31/12/2023 16:39

Agree. I'm 60 and have worked fulltime for more than 40 years, own my house free and clear, volunteer, have provided lots of eldercare and end-of-life care, until recently had dogs, regularly drive hundreds of miles to help my sister with cancer, have a high-maintenance garden, and a decent social life. I'm in the midst of repainting the entire interior of my house.

Do I have all the energy as when I was 40? No. But I'm not elderly and not incapable of sustaining myself financially, logistically and careerwise. There is no reason the OP's mother has for continuing to be a leech. She has a good decade of work ahead of her, at least.

Show quote history

@LaurieStrode Well bully for you. Some people haven’t had such a smooth journey through life. What’s good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander. You have no idea of the woman’s capabilities, mental health, general health. People have suggested going to a charity like CAB or the council for help. Why do you think they exist? Why do you think councils have a homelessness unit? Life can be very hard for some and being supportive is more useful than judging them. You might be fit and well and financially stable. There are many, many older people who are not. Sometimes through bad relationships, low paid jobs, DV, ill health or bad choices, does it matter? We are a society and in society we support the vulnerable and OPs mother, for whatever reasons, is now vulnerable.

Original poster
Pottlee · 31/12/2023 16:51

Luddite26 · 31/12/2023 16:43

Your mum will have received a national insurance number at some point. She will have a record of contributions if she received child benefit for bringing you up which I'm sure she will have.
So all these years she could have been claiming carers allowance for looking after your Grandma but your gran sounds like she covered that.
She needs to get registered with the council to be rehomed and speak to someone at HMRC about her contributions and get to the job centre to start with her benefit claims/job search they will get her sorted I'm not being judgemental your mum came from a time when it was more expected to be a sahm.
What was your uncle doing while your mum conveniently looked after their mother?

Edited

Uncle has his own family, home and job. He is grateful to my mum for all she did taking care of their mum but also knows she has taken no responsibility for herself her whole life and is happy to take take take financially, but then seems to now just be sat there waiting for someone to bail her out again.
I don’t know whether or not he would be willing to give her his share as he doesn’t really need it, but by the sounds of it there’s no money left after the house sale for whatever reason -I don’t really know

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 31/12/2023 16:52

At sime pount shdle must haVe been known to your gm gp or bank or whatever.
So she can prove she been living in uk
Driving licence?
She was daft not to claim carers allowance etc but her responsibility
Did your gm claim she was living alone for council tax? Time to fess up
You have no obligation she is an adult and can get advice to claim uc and h b

Redcar78 · 31/12/2023 16:53

OldRanter · 31/12/2023 15:22

I cannot even get a voluntary job as they want 2 references, never mind a paying job, I would be stuffed if wasn't for DH

Can't you use character references, do you know anyone who would give you one? Tbh many places will accept one if they need staff 🤷‍♀️

Terrribletwos · 31/12/2023 16:53

SgtJuneAckland · 31/12/2023 13:38

Your uncle is talking nonsense.
She needs to go to the council and register as homeless, given her age she's kindly to get a flat in an over 55s place. I live in the south and the general housing list is anything up to ten years but over 55s are fairly readily available. Otherwise she could look at the rent deposit scheme where the council front deposit and first month's rent if she's eligible for housing benefit.
If she had any medical needs, mental or physical, she will need to take evidence of these.

Yes, this poster is correct. Your mother needs to contact the council housing office.

Your uncle is incorrect. You bear no responsibility to your mother whatsoever.

Don't worry too much about it. It is up to your mother to sort herself out. Is she likely to harass you to stay with you?

Terrribletwos · 31/12/2023 16:55

ilovesooty · 31/12/2023 16:05

That's an interesting point.

Show quote history

That wouldn't be the mum's problem.

Seymour5 · 31/12/2023 16:58

Age UK can be really helpful in situations like this. They can offer guidance around claiming benefits, applying for housing (which is more readily available for over 55s) and any other issues the OPs mum might have.