Neighbour taken mother's car keys..... would the police intervene

[whenlifegivesyoulemonssuckonthem]

Simple facts.

Neighbour has done a lot for mum over the years
He has now convinced himself she has dementia and she can't drive
He wants me to put her in a home

The ulterior motive is He wants to buy mums house for his son and buy mums car.

I live 300 miles away and do what i can. Only this weekend I got her admitted to hospital for an assessment I didn't think she needed as I was with her the week before last. She passed flying colours.

He took her keys off her three weeks ago and I made him give them back then he had a go at me for letting her drive.

Now he's walked into her house taken her keys again and said she won't be needing them again.

I've threatened the police if he doesn't give them back but worried its an idle threat.

I've suggested mum moves closer to us and get told "The only way I'm leaving this house is in a box"

She has a cleaner once a fortnight for two hours - I've finally managed to tell her she needs it at least once a week and also not just clean but laundry etc to help her out. Even if its just putting it in the washing machine so my mum can take it up to the drier on her chair lift.

When I go down to visit I do not pussy foot around her. She does not get waited on hand and foot. I cook dinner - but she's in charge of dishes and clean up. I make sure I observe what she can and can't do. The answer is - she can do most things when she wants to, just slowly. Which is fine.

She's slow on her feet but when she's not supporting her body weight, she can move her ankles and knees quickly enough to emergency break which is important.

OP you sound like you are doing a great job with your mum. Well done !

Are you sure you're not in a bit of denial about how bad things really are because of the guilt of being so far away or because you don't want to have to deal with it? This is an 80-year-old woman whose physical functioning is so bad that she was granted DLA/PIP two decades ago. Yet the only help she gets is a cleaner in once a fortnight? At that age and in that condition she should be getting more help if she wants to stay at home.

@SnowSwan

I agree but she's stubborn. However thats not the issue currently causing me issues.

It is, though. Either her neighbour is right and she isn't safe to be on her own or driving, or being without support has made her vulnerable to being taken advantage of by others. She isn't safe with the level of support she is getting.

Yeah, she may not be safe with this level of support, but WTAF is OP supposed to do about it? OP, my dad is the same. Refuses to have more help, or to move into assisted living. In the end there's not much you can do except what you can do.

You can't force another person to do anything they don't want to even if they are in their 80s.

You can't force her to have more help.

One of the reasons I'm so hot on knowing if she does or does not have capacity is because I'd love her to have more help. If she didn't have capacity I could put it in place using my PoA and she could not over ride it which would make my life so much easier. I'd also not be in the situation I'm in dealing with NDN.

However, she does have capacity. When she is assessed they say she is very good for her age and most don't believe she's 80!

I don't honestly think I can do any more than I am.

Are you sure you're not in a bit of denial about how bad things really are because of the guilt of being so far away or because you don't want to have to deal with it? This is an 80-year-old woman whose physical functioning is so bad that she was granted DLA/PIP two decades ago.

Errm ableist much?
Its not because you need a wheelchair (which will give you the higher rate mobility for PIP) that you need carers, are unable to take decisions fir yourself or are unable to live on your own fgs.

I don't think I could live with myself knowing that a family member was an unsafe driver. She does need to be reported to police, to prevent a potential tragedy.
Maybe your neighbour thought this was a kinder way around it?
He has no right to do so though.
Maybe you can explain the issue to police and get both issues sorted at the same time?

Someone coming twice a week to clean the house and help with the bedding or meal prep isn’t going to have any impact on the NDN issue.

Thats nothing to do with being safe on her own ‘with the level of support she is currently getting’.

What you are hinting at is the fact you don’t think the OP’s mum has enough capacity to be able to live on her own.
That’s despite the fact all the tests show she has indeed capacity.

This is exactly the sort of thinking the NDN indulges in. Thinking they know best, that it’s ok to take action because ‘she is obviously unsafe on her own and shouldn’t be left alone’.

Now I’m not saying that the OP’s mum doesn’t need some guidance and help. But that’s not the same than ‘being safe’ or she is ‘too vulnerable to be left on her own’.

I don't think you need to feel guilty at all.

Re: capacity, where you there for the assessment? Did it convince you. My father was deemed to have capacity even when he was being financially abused by my brother because he could talk a good talk and cover the gaps in an interview (and of course they didn't see him sat there w no TV as it had been sold or have him ringing in panic to say his pension hadn't been paid (when it had been stolen).

The bar for having capacity is pretty low as you are allowed to make terrible, ruinous decisions even if they are totally out of character - like letting someone seize you car keys for instance.

I'm not saying your mum lacks capacity but she's clearly vulnerable to predators.

If you have a motability car before you reach state pension age, as long as you continue to get disability benefits at the same level, you can keep the car

Not sure your in a position to say anything not being a regular daily helping relative. Sadly I see both sides that this man has done a heck of alot for your mum that you havent

Going into her house and helping herself to her property is not helpful. This vulnerable lady has a man who feels free to let himself into her house. How can this ever be right?

The OP can suggest her Mum moves to Scotland to be nearer but she can't kidnap her and force her into it.

No I was not there for the assessment but I live with her 20% of the time and can watch her a lot more than the assessment did (which she passed). What elements of her behaviour could be cuasing concern I can honestly say she's displayed for the last 40 years:

1. She has never reliably put phones on to charge. I remember as a teenager having a go at her because once again I'd got in from school and once again all the phones were dead. She doesn't do it now either but NDN has convinced himself she doesn't understand how phones work.

1. She buys too much food. Again, always been a problem. Nothing new there but since NDN has been helping her out all he sees is fresh food being thrown out. He didn't see the same thing happen when she was in her 40s and 50s.

1. She doesn't take to new technology. I remember her being very proud when we got our first video recorder. I was 5 and she was 37. She had a badge of honour that her daughter could operate it better than she could. Dad (before he died 17 years ago) covered a lot of this for her. When I ask her why she doesnt write down instructions her answer is because I can call you and you'll tell me.

She is slow around the house because of her arthritits not because she is mentally impaired. She has full capacity to make financial decisions - I keep a check on this. She also has shown no evidence other than being forgetful which her own GP said was normal for her age. My uncle who sees her four times a week every week agrees she's no worse than he is (He's also 80 and still drives although he did have the sense to move into assisted living) since half the time he can't remember what he had for lunch let alone dinner the night before.

I'm an only child with one surviving parent and a surviving uncle. That is it for my family. I am doing the best I can.

I have a ring camera, I have alexa's in every room I can drop in on her when ever I need to. Her phone is on my account so I pay for her mobile phone and its on find my iphone.

I cannot force her to live with me. I do not want to move back to where she lives (if she was ill and her time was limited I would but she's in fine fettle and frankly this could go on for years). I can set up all the cleanrers and helpers in the world to go in for her (and I have done) but if she says she doesn't need or want them, its up to her.

OP This might seem horribly intrusive, but it worked well for my in-laws. DH installed a couple of internet cameras in his parent's house and regularly checked in on them. It quite literally was a life saver. In your case it might be more useful to keep an eye on the NDN if and when he is in her house, but you can also check your mother is continuing to cope.

You sound like a great daughter. She is very lucky to have you.

What? I'm not talking about capacity. I'm talking about physical support. In the OP's mum's case, DLA/PIP was granted because she was deemed in need of physical support because of her disability. They don't just give DLA/PIP to someone with sore joints. Her arthritis will have had to be impacting her badly. And that was around or over 20 years ago. So it is not unreasonable to think her support needs will have increased in that time seeing as arthritis doesn't get better. Yet she is still making her own meals and doing her own laundry. If she is absolutely fine on her own, why was the neighbour helping her so much?

This. The OP has come in for some unnecessary criticism.

If she is absolutely fine on her own, why was the neighbour helping her so much? To gain access to her home nosey about and help himself to whatever he likes?

We have pet cameras in my mums house with her consent obviously. She has carers 3 times a day and has a fall alarm but the cameras give us even more peace of mind.

Why did she let him do that then? If she didn't need help, why let him in? Why give him a key? Why put him on the car insurance?