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Legal matters

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Original poster

DNA Test…. What are my rights…

111 replies

Hedgehog93 · 17/04/2023 20:36

So my ex partner kicked me out whilst I was four months pregnant. We were together 18 months had a gender reveal 4 days prior. His behaviour was abnormal and volatile. Never heard off him again. I blocked him and made it clear I want zero to do with him after he dumped all my stuff off without me even being allowed to pack my own stuff and like I said pregnant and sick at the time!
My son is now 15 weeks old. After much deliberation I applied for child maintenance. He’s obviously not on the birth certificate and we weren’t married. He instantly called them requesting a DNA test and as predicted went self employed in Feb and apparently hasn’t earnt a penny since. Even the guy at CSA said “this one’s a charmer!”
I told him to keep his dirty money and shove it as I’m not having my son swabbed and I do not want him to then have a DNA test to then possibly take me to court to go on the birth certificate as I don’t want him near my son and he has shown zero care or acted with any humanity. He kicked his son out as far as I’m concerned not just me. He is vile. So I will close the case with CSA as it’s just not worth the bother now he is self employed also. I don’t have the energy.
What I am now worrying is can he take me to court at a later date and can they force me to take a dna test? I’m hoping he won’t as he only cares about paying it seems. I do not want this man having any rights over my son and will do anything to avoid this. I also don’t have a spare 20k to battle him in court. Any advice much appreciated!!!

OP posts:

Offthexmaslist · 19/04/2023 18:11

I just think you have got to get it very clear in your head that making a CMS claim does not = access. A successful cms claim where he denies paternity and either has or refuses a dna test does NOT equal PR OR access !

The child maintenance service is not part of the Family Court service. ! It simply means he is legally liable for maintenance.

He would still have to start from the beginning with all associated costs to gain PR and then another application for contact. £££... self representing or ££££ with lawyers.... this poor excuse of a man has for away with so much..and caused you so much heartache please go for maintenance. *

There is a caveat to that. Don't bother if he is on benefits. It's not worth filling in the claim. I am basing this on a 47 year old man established in a PAYE job.. self employed can also be tricky if he declares a 'loss' every year... but then they will look at his tax affairs to see why he is working for nothing long term ... 'Revenge is a dish best served cold... ' ... once HMRC have you in their sites they are relentless....

Go for it OP do not let this fucker get off with this Scott free !

AnotherEmma · 19/04/2023 19:47

Offthexmaslist · 19/04/2023 18:11

The child maintenance service is not part of the Family Court service. ! It simply means he is legally liable for maintenance.

There is a caveat to that. Don't bother if he is on benefits. It's not worth filling in the claim. I am basing this on a 47 year old man established in a PAYE job.. self employed can also be tricky if he declares a 'loss' every year... but then they will look at his tax affairs to see why he is working for nothing long term ... 'Revenge is a dish best served cold... ' ... once HMRC have you in their sites they are relentless....

Go for it OP do not let this fucker get off with this Scott free !

Well said!

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 19/04/2023 21:36

@Offthexmaslist I officially love you. Thank you for being a normal human!!! I went for it as I thought he was PAYE but he’s apparently gone conveniently self employed…. Almost like… shock horror he was waiting on the claim… as of feb and not earnt anthing! Despite having 2k at least of outgoing. Hence I closed the claim as the dna test wasn’t worth it.. right or wrong I don’t know. He’s just a giant prick

OP posts:

Offthexmaslist · 20/04/2023 06:26

Awww thanks OP😊

Please reopen it. ! and enjoy every moment knowing he will forever have to hide from them and the inland revenue.... every knock at the door. Wondering if it's the bailiffs or the tax inspectors...

how do I know this ? Best friends ex husband is self employed builder... she got about £1k for 3 kids in five years but the relentless state harassment left him living a half life. Then friend inherited over 600k from a relative she had never heard of..

Now she has a beautiful home, a lovely grown adult functioning male partner, has been able to take semi retirement... and has three fabulous kids all now grown and all too aware what a pathetic example of parenthood he is. With 2/3 no contact and one v minimal... karma ..🤣

sashh · 20/04/2023 08:11

Hedgehog93 · 17/04/2023 20:50

I know who the father is. I’m not concerned whether a swab is painful 😂 I’m saying I’m not having my baby subjected to that when he knows full well he is the father. My point is and my question is can a dna test be forced by a court later down the line so he can be added to the birth certificate = legal rights. I am not progressing with CSA because I am not doing a dna which could be potentially used in court to gain access!! I applied for CSA just hoping he would accept parentage. A dna test isn’t a compulsory part of the CSA purpose only if the dad is a dickhead and wants to delay payments and use it to gain control later. I have closed the CSA as I do not want to Risk him using said DNA test to apply to go on the birth certificate!!!

I doubt he would get PR. I have a relative who did the, "Prove it's mine" thing.

What he didn't know was that meant HE had to pay for the test. That's about £400 now.

Trying to get PR is what you are really worried about, not the BC. If he wants that he would have to go to court and that is another couple of hundred £.

BUT you also get to have your say. And PR is just that, responsibility, so he would need to provide a home for his child, which will probably involve paying some of your rent / mortgage.

You obviously know him best and I would take legal advice but think about what you want for your child.

Would you be OK if the father made a one off payment and you both agree he will have no further contact and you will not ask him for CSA payments?

Why would someone pay money toward a child they have zero parental rights for?

Because it is your child. As a taxpayer I, and you, pay financial support for many many children we have no PR for.

prh47bridge · 20/04/2023 08:31

If he applies to the courts for a Child Arrangements Order and OP says he is not the father, the CAFCASS DNA testing service may be used which is free.

If he goes on the birth certificate, he will get PR automatically. He wouldn't have to go back to court for it. His PR could be removed by the courts, but this rarely happens, and OP hasn't said anything that suggests she has a case.

PR does not mean he would have to provide a home for his child. He will only ever be legally liable for child maintenance at the rate set by the CMS calculation.

Nightynightnight · 21/04/2023 10:33

Snoopyandthemuppets · 17/04/2023 21:14

No this is not a legal right.

A father can ask for a court order DNA test and if it refused the court can order the child to have one done.

it is not a ‘legal right of a child’ to have a father on the birth certificate.

if you know who might be the father you can be forced to give those names to the court, a man refusing to do a DNA can be named as a father.

But let’s say, you had a ONS or were raped - in those cases any child does not have the ‘legal right to a father on the birth certificate’ as they can not necessarily be named, located or DNA tested.

Your ex can apply at any point for a DNA test and to be named on the BC. That is their right.

They have to be named to pay CSA unless they agreed to consent to accept the child is theirs without a DNA test.

Show quote history

Yes and there is a difference between a legal right and a moral right.

If OP tells her child "Joe Bloggs is your father" but Joe Bloggs denies parentage then the child will not know whether or not Joe Bloggs is their father. Not knowing for sure where half of your genetic make up came from can be hugely damaging in more ways than one. A DNA test would at least give the child some certainty. So I maintain my position that a child has a right to know who their father is.

DrySherry · 21/04/2023 14:05

I think you need to try to take the personal hate out of this for the sake of your baby. I get that he didn't treat you well, but that doesn't mean he would be like that with his child - it absolutely doesn't.

Boys especially benefit from a male influence as they go through puberty. That stage is at least a decade away -and maybe your ex won't be such a dick by then and can have some positive input. In the meantime you may or may not be able to force some financial help from him.

Look at the bigger picture and get the test done. That way you don't have to worry going forward that one day your ex will insist on a dna test and access to your boy at an age when he knows what's going on and will be disturbed by it.

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 14:19

@DrySherry so you think a 47 year old man who kicked his 20 week pregnant girlfriend out of the flat she shared with him (he took my rent money 3 days prior and didn’t return it) whilst I was actually off work unwell is stable to be around a baby? You think that is in the best interest of a child do you??? For context he flipped his lid over a disagreement on the phone about weekend plans…. And within an hour him his 70 year old mum and sister bin bagged my entire belongings and dumped it off at my parents house who were away on holiday so I had zero support whilst being Unwell and pregnant. He has never contacted me or picked up the phone the entire time to check on me or his son. We did a gender reveal 4 days prior - him making me go halves on the scan of course and then he did that. That is how volatile he is. You think that’s better for a baby to be around that??? He threw his baby out not just me. He has my brother and dad in his life who he lives with who are amazing men and amazing role models. He picked up the phone to csa demanding a dna test and to tell them he went self employed since feb and earns nothing and you think that’s a good man???? MENTAL the replies on here. He’s a fucking sperm donor at best.

OP posts:

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 14:22

Can I also add he smashed a windscreen of a car whilst driving with me pregnant in it a month prior also. So no I do not want him near my son. Imagine if he won’t stop crying in his care??? What will he do. No chance. I’ll just move anyway. Again not what I came on here for. Funny how when I posted when this happened at the time 99% of people said DO not put him on the birth certificate. My son will know who his dad is I will tell him the truth. I’m protecting him. It’s nothing to do with my hate. My son comes before anything.

OP posts:

2bazookas · 21/04/2023 14:26

If he wants parental responsibility he can apply to a court, and the court can order a DNA test of the child to prove paternity.

This is non-invasive to the child so there are no grounds to refuse it.

DrySherry · 21/04/2023 14:28

Apologies if my posted suggestion was way off the mark. You didn't detail his behaviour.

I have to ask though, why an earth would you have a child by a monster like that ?

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 14:34

@DrySherry do you think he did that before I got pregnant? There were some red flags that in hindsight admittedly I overlooked mainly financial but it was a planned pregnancy, I lived with him and we had been together a decent amount of time. I’m not some stupid naive idiot I’m 32. Stats also show that domestic abuse can often start in pregnancy. I don’t care about moral “children should know there father” I do not want the legal implications and rights which go hand in hand with being on the birth certificate. It’s not about a stupid name on piece of paper it’s the fact he can gain access, stop me going out of the country, not return my son if he saw him. Sorry unless my standards are ridiculously high I don’t particularly trust a man who can be that cruel and vile to a pregnant woman carrying his son??? So if me protecting my son makes me morally wrong for not putting a name on there then shoot me. My conscience is clear. His safety is key. I would hate the thought of my baby crying around a man who can so easily go from 0-100, who treats a pregnant woman WITH the help of his family that way and made the effort to ring the Csa straight away to try and get out of paying when he never rang to even try and see or ask about his son…..

OP posts:

Nightynightnight · 21/04/2023 14:45

Of course you don't. Your question was can you be forced to consent to your child undergoing a DNA test. The answer is yes. And honestly a quick Google would have given you that answer. So maybe your real reason for posting was to get support and encouragement that you're doing the right thing. And that's ok. But when you use Mumsnet to answer a question that you can Google that is as contentious as this one people will share their opinions.

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:01

@Nightynightnight actually when I consulted Dr Google I actually was more under the impression a court can’t force a DNA test and I was looking for insightful experiences and I am definitely on the fence with continuing the CSA claim. I wasn’t looking for opinions actually hence I’m quite shocked at the responses!

OP posts:

Gcsunnyside23 · 21/04/2023 15:24

Hedgehog93 · 17/04/2023 20:53

He’s abusive. I am protecting my son. I want him nowhere near him. If he can treat a pregnant woman that way as well as other things he has done then I want him nowhere near a baby. Again not what I’m asking an opinion of here.

I don't think you will get much money from him so I would leave it and hope he lets it go too.
I think it comes down to is he the type that will go the whole hog if he has to pay just to make your life hell or will it be too much hassle for him?
If it were me I'd let things be than risk him going after parental rights. I think he can still go for visitation with a DnA test even if not on birth certificate

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:30

@Gcsunnyside23 yes my thoughts exactly. Now he has gone self employed there is zero point. This was a man who used to make me go halves on every single thing down to the penny in our whole relationship despite him earning 4 x more than me! He was waiting for this to come and knew my due date was in January and conveniently left his PAYE job in Feb to be self employed but has told the CSA he hasn’t earnt anything since then. I have no idea how he is paying his £900 rent and £300 car finance plus all his other bills and down the pub every weekend. I wish HMRC would get him done for his tax invasion which I know for a fact he does. I predicted he would do that as I know what he is like so I don’t know why I am surprised. It’s a hard pill to swallow for me but I just have to remember I have the prize a beautiful lovely son and he has to live with the fact he has a son out there who he has done absolutely nothing for and won’t see because I think he honestly would rather save the money.

OP posts:

drpet49 · 21/04/2023 15:32

RunningFromInsanity · 17/04/2023 20:48

Why would someone pay money toward a child they have zero parental rights for?

There’s no way I would expect anyone to pay maintenance without being on the birth certificate.

You just have to decide whether the money is worth it- based on what you’ve said it doesn’t sound like it to me.

But yes he can at any point ask for a DNA test.

Show quote history

This. You can’t have your cake and eat it OP.

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:32

@Gcsunnyside23 that’s the thing I have no idea what he will do as I didn’t expect him to thrown me out of our flat when I was pregnant after our gender reveal party 4 days prior so I guess the uncertainty throughout this whole ordeal makes me feel sick to be honest.

OP posts:

MyopicBunny · 21/04/2023 15:36

Hedgehog93 · 17/04/2023 20:40

As I don’t want him being on the birth certificate as I said. You can claim maintenance without the father being on it. I want him having zero parental rights understandably hence I won’t continue with the claim. That’s not my question.

If your ex decides he wants to go to court to enable him to be on your son's bc at a later date, he can do so and I think you'd have to comply with DNA testing in such a circumstance.

I'm sorry he's treated you so awfully. 99% of the time women are left to carry the can and it's not fair.

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:38

@drpet49 i think you’re find legally maintenance and visitation/access are in no means connected. A father has a legal obligation as do BOTH parents to financially provide for there child. And he does not have to be on the birth certificate to do so. This I had confirmed by a solicitor. It was a planned pregnancy. I am on minimum wage. Why do I have to scrape by whilst he doesn’t? He was the one who was abusive to me.

OP posts:

MyopicBunny · 21/04/2023 15:41

That's such rubbish. If he cared about that little boy there is no way that he would have kicked his mum out of the house when she was pregnant with him. Just because he's a bio father, that doesn't make him capable of being a good role model for his son, at puberty or otherwise.

Soontobe60 · 21/04/2023 15:41

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:01

This came up as the second link on Google

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1142587/c63-eng-0720-save.pdf

He can certainly apply to the courts to force a DNA test on your son - they may not agree, but that would be very rare. You asked if he can force you to agree to the DNA testing, and many replies said yes he can. So thats your answer. Everything else is just chatter. I’m not sure what responses you're shocked at.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1142587/c63-eng-0720-save.pdf

MyopicBunny · 21/04/2023 15:42

DrySherry · 21/04/2023 14:28

Apologies if my posted suggestion was way off the mark. You didn't detail his behaviour.

I have to ask though, why an earth would you have a child by a monster like that ?

I hate when people somehow see fit to blame a woman for ending up in an abusive relationship.

Original poster

Hedgehog93 · 21/04/2023 15:43

@MyopicBunny i know right. I never thought in a million years this would have been my life. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen to them eh??

OP posts:

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