So we went for a holiday to her home country in the EU, and I had to return a week early for work reasons. On the eve that she and our child was suppose to fly back, she said didn't want to come back. I'm trying to keep things amicable at the moment and intend to fly back out there and resolve things, and is it stands we are not separated, but if that falls apart legally is that still abduction if I do not consent to our child not returning?
This is a very stressful time for me. Thanks for reading
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Legal matters
partner has our child and is refusing to return to the UK
davejohns · 18/06/2022 22:52
liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 13:52
Defamatory- Christ 😆. Anyway the courts will have all the info and will be able to make a decision based on the best interest of the child if OP can't get negation a suitable outcome on their own. We don't need to be in possession of the details as we have no part in the decision.
Namechangefrustration · 19/06/2022 13:40
Prove that I implied that this is the OPs fault. I simply suggested that as we don't have all the information, we cant rule out that this wasn't done in the best interest of the child. Your judgements against me are inaccurate and defamatory
Orchardsandpianos · 19/06/2022 13:38
Because the OP had provided the information 5 hours before your comment, and several subsequent posters had referenced the age
Why is the reasoning important. Someone has abducted the ops 2 year old child, and sitting here picking at them, implying it must be their fault is crass, inappropriate, childish and disrespectful. I get we are over the internet but be respectful, you are questioning the Ops reasoning without knowing the backstory and questioning their intentions.
Namechangefrustration · 19/06/2022 13:28
And where did you get the impression that I had the information that the child was 2 at the time of commenting That aside, that still leaves the question of the reasoning behind the mothers decisions
liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 13:22
The child is 2 it's the mum who wants to stay not there child who is too young to have any concept or understanding of what they want. Where did you get the impression this was a 2 year old child's decision?
Namechangefrustration · 19/06/2022 13:15
@lollipoprainbow @PaddingtonBearStareAgain I get were over the internet but be adult, be respectful. None of this insolence. You question the mother and child's reasoning without knowing the backstory and what's more, question my intentions. Doesn't it make you wonder though, why the child would want to move so far away from the father, and the reasonings behind those decisions. I made my comment in the best interest of the child's wellbeing.
Anyfeckinusername · 19/06/2022 13:51
OP, this IS abduction. That is a criminal offence. So yes you should get legal advice, but you can actually go straight to the police.
she is allowed to travel with her children for a limited number of days without your permission. Not permanently.
she could be summoned back to U.K. under The Hague convention. She is very likely to lose custody (if you so wanted her to lose it), back in the U.K.
I am on the other side of this; trying to leave the country with children, legally. The option to do what she is doing has been explained to me very clearly as a very disadvantaging action to take in the long run.
if you’re not separated, I think you should get into mediation with her asap. Good luck.
oviraptor21 · 19/06/2022 13:51
Luckily the law doesn't agree with you.
Namechangefrustration · 19/06/2022 13:05
She wants to live with her other family in another country. So why dont you want to let her? I get youll miss her but thats not a good enough reason
liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 13:55
Not entirely true. At the moment this is a civil matter. Only when there is an order granted and ignored does it become a police/criminal matter (having also been on the other side for very good reasons).
Anyfeckinusername · 19/06/2022 13:51
OP, this IS abduction. That is a criminal offence. So yes you should get legal advice, but you can actually go straight to the police.
she is allowed to travel with her children for a limited number of days without your permission. Not permanently.
she could be summoned back to U.K. under The Hague convention. She is very likely to lose custody (if you so wanted her to lose it), back in the U.K.
I am on the other side of this; trying to leave the country with children, legally. The option to do what she is doing has been explained to me very clearly as a very disadvantaging action to take in the long run.
if you’re not separated, I think you should get into mediation with her asap. Good luck.
Laurajane1987 · 19/06/2022 15:00
You keep stating you have 'shared parental responsibility' legally you don't have that unless youve already been through a court and obtained it. If you wanted to argue a case of abduction you'd have to go to court, apply for joint custody and then once obtained you could argue she's holding the child in a foreign country without your permission. Without the legal stamp of joint custody, she is the primary parent right now, as you aren't married and the child is with her, so youd have to prove that she's witholding access to the child. Even so if she isn't willing to return and you fought for joint custody the child would still have to move between the countries to visit you and her unless you apply for sole custody, which to be frank is highly unlikely you'd get with mum being in a different country.
liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 15:04
@Laurajane1987 totally untrue. Since 2003 if a father is on the north certificate they have joint parental rights/responsibility
Laurajane1987 · 19/06/2022 15:00
You keep stating you have 'shared parental responsibility' legally you don't have that unless youve already been through a court and obtained it. If you wanted to argue a case of abduction you'd have to go to court, apply for joint custody and then once obtained you could argue she's holding the child in a foreign country without your permission. Without the legal stamp of joint custody, she is the primary parent right now, as you aren't married and the child is with her, so youd have to prove that she's witholding access to the child. Even so if she isn't willing to return and you fought for joint custody the child would still have to move between the countries to visit you and her unless you apply for sole custody, which to be frank is highly unlikely you'd get with mum being in a different country.
SapereAude · 19/06/2022 13:09
None of which is relevant to the fact that the Op's child, as the law stands, has been abducted by the mother.
The whys and wherefores of the break up of a relationship are for another thread and another time.
A counsellor will tell the OP to work through why the relationship broke down.
A solicitor will tell him what to do to get an illegal act taken to the courts. Right now, the OP needs the second one.
MumbleAlwaysMumble · 19/06/2022 12:36
You need to talk to her and see what is going on
You didn’t seem to have any issue before hand but she had told you she was struggling. Is it possible that you didn’t really hear her and how much she was struggling? Any issue with PND and depression etc…?
Im very much getting the feeling that the issue isn’t you as a couple if she is happy for you to be with her there. But a real issue about living in the U.K. (many possible reasons there btw). But I suspect that, at least for now, a non confrontational approach will help (doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get legal advice though).
Tbf, living in a country that isn’t yours and being stuck there because you have a child is crap. Really really crap. And so is the possibility of not seeing the child very often because one parent has decided to go back home for their own MH.
davejohns · 19/06/2022 06:35
just the normal stresses of having a baby and her homesickness. and yes i'm on the birth certificate. I state that already.
Skeptadad · 19/06/2022 21:29
I got joint custody of my lovely daughter when she was 2. Some of her developmental scores were poor before I came along. Now she is smashing all of them.
Absolute tosh that dads are somehow weaker parents by virtue of their sex.
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